Latin, the Enlightenment, and science
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From: Peter T. Daniels on 26 Dec 2009 12:24 On Dec 26, 11:14 am, "I.N. Galidakis" <morph...(a)olympus.mons> wrote: > Peter T. Daniels wrote: > > On Dec 26, 3:05 am, "I.N. Galidakis" <morph...(a)olympus.mons> wrote: > >> Joachim Pense wrote: > > >> [snip] > > >>> Greek is versatile in making up new words by composition, and that's what > >>> western scientists did until recently. > > >> Here's a graphical example which partially shows this versatility, for those > >> who can follow it: > > > By "follow," you mean 'read the Greek language'. And it's not a > > graphical example, it's a list. > > >>http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/writing/definition.html > > Actually, no, one does not need to 'read the Greek language' to follow this > page. The translation of the original definition is given on top. The rest is > just repeated applications of the same definition, with "X" being replaced by > the noun the definition uses and with the appropriate conjuctions added using a > different color. That's what I meant by "graphical". Didn't you learn in science that definition by enumeration is unacceptable? "Graphic" would usually refer to a diagram, graph, or chart. > I just thought the majority of the readers would be keen enough to notice.. > Apparently not. So you also apply the fallacy of deriving a general principle from an individual example? You do not have the slightest idea what "the majority of the readers" would or would not be keen enough to notice. > >> For general cultural exchange, I'd say it's pretty obvious that the most > >> versatile one is American-English, because its bastardization is phenomenal. > >> At least as witnessed by this author, after spending 10 years there. > > >> That, which is bastardized and mutated the most is the one which adapts and > >> survives the longest. > > > Anyone who refers to the borrowing of words between languages in > > contact as "bastardization" needs to learn a little linguistics before > > posting to sci.lang again. (Though you'd be at home in a small corner > > of alt.usage.english.) > > Mea Culpa! Next time I decide to post to sci.lang, I'll make sure to email you > for permissions first, before I get my second degree in linguistics. Your first degree in linguistics seems not to have taught you much, if anything.
From: garabik-news-2005-05 on 26 Dec 2009 12:57 In sci.lang Peter T. Daniels <grammatim(a)verizon.net> wrote: > Didn't you learn in science that definition by enumeration is > unacceptable? On the contrary, in mathematics, definition by enumerating axioms is THE acceptable way (granted, you probably did not mean _this_)... -- ----------------------------------------------------------- | Radovan Garabík http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk | ----------------------------------------------------------- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
From: Yusuf B Gursey on 26 Dec 2009 14:34 On Dec 26, 12:18 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > On Dec 26, 10:04 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Dec 26, 8:58 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > > On Dec 25, 11:18 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > > > > On Dec 25, 11:11 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 25, 8:01 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 25, 1:54 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Dec 25, 11:43 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > why isn't this cross-posted to a medical or biological NG? Latin based > > > > > > > > coinages are AFAIK more alive in those fields. philosophy tends, AFAIK > > > > > > > > towards german. particle physics is inovative: quark (a fundamental > > > > > > > > particle, IIRC from a type of german cheese, but based on a miss- > > > > > > > > Did Gell-Mann ever claim any connection with Ger. Quark?? > > > > > > > no, he didn't. > > > > > > Then why did you say he did? > > > > > I said the word was from German, not that Gell-Mann claimed the > > > > connection. > > > > So now it's your claim that Joyce was writing about three cottage- > > > cheeses for Muster Mark? > > > I don't have any idea what Joyce had in mind, but I know that quark is > > a type of cheese in German.- > > Everyone knows that. But it has nothing to do with the name of the > subatomic particle, unless Joyce was referencing it in that passage. IMHO he might have been.
From: Yusuf B Gursey on 26 Dec 2009 15:28 On Dec 26, 10:04 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > On Dec 26, 8:58 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Dec 25, 11:18 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > > > > On Dec 25, 11:11 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > > > On Dec 25, 8:01 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 25, 1:54 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 25, 11:43 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y...(a)theworld.com> wrote: > > > > > > > why isn't this cross-posted to a medical or biological NG? Latin based > > > > > > > coinages are AFAIK more alive in those fields. philosophy tends, AFAIK > > > > > > > towards german. particle physics is inovative: quark (a fundamental > > > > > > > particle, IIRC from a type of german cheese, but based on a miss- > > > > > > > Did Gell-Mann ever claim any connection with Ger. Quark?? > > > > > > no, he didn't. > > > > > Then why did you say he did? > > > > I said the word was from German, not that Gell-Mann claimed the > > > connection. > > > So now it's your claim that Joyce was writing about three cottage- > > cheeses for Muster Mark? > > I don't have any idea what Joyce had in mind, but I know that quark is > a type of cheese in German. on another note, I had heard that the politicians and other bureaucrats in charge of funding had complained that such names as "quark", "flavor" and "charm" (the last invented by another particle physicist) made their endaevors sound frivolous to those in charge of the funding.
From: chazwin on 26 Dec 2009 16:20
On Dec 24, 5:43 pm, Mahipal7638 <mahipal7...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 24, 8:58 am, Andrew Usher <k_over_hb...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > The use of Latin in the sciences and other learned fields basically > > ceased in the 18th and 19th centuries. I have long wondered why people > > accepted the use of national languages exclusively in this endeavor > > where international understanding is more imperative than any other. > > It is true, that the use of Latin by 1700 had already passed almost > > everywhere else, but its last remaining use should still have been > > enough to support it, given that Latin was the one language that every > > educated man in the Western world knew, and that Latin, having such a > > long tradition of use, was at least suitable for scientific and > > technical purposes as any other language at the time. > > > And so, some explanations suggest themselves. The first is that the > > predominant advocates and defenders of Latin, from the Renaissance to > > now, are from the humanities; and so once Latin had disappeared from > > live literary use, their support was no longer important. The second > > is to blame it on the French: they abandoned Latin earlier than anyone > > else, and are well-known to have an inflated view of the greatness of > > their own language. But that does not seem to explain how it happened > > everywhere else: had they wanted to emulate the French, they would > > have started writing in French, and if they had wanted to oppose them, > > they should have re-emphasised the role of Latin. > > > Now, of course, I can't propose the revival of Latin for these > > purposes: English has virtually replaced it as the international > > scientific language. But it look a long time during which dealing with > > many different languages was a considerable problem, and it seems as > > though this should have been avoided. > > > Andrew Usher > > Science, enlightened or not, is Language independent, Language > indifferent, Latin or otherwise. All thinking is language dependant. > > One can arbitrarily translate scientific thought, it's not poetry, > from one Language to another. So naive. > > Enjo(y)... > -- > Mahipalhttp://mahipal7638.wordpress.com/meforce/ |