From: Rowland McDonnell on
D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:

> zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > >> It hurt, but could have been a lot worse.
> > >
> > > [trying not to grin like a loon][*nearly* succeeding]
> > >
> > > Jim
> >
> > About five minutes after it happened, I felt brilliant. Adrenaline is
> > really cool.
>
> Five years ago I crashed my bike at the bottom of a long descent. I was
> doing about 30mph, perhaps even a little more.
>
> Apparently, it looked like the guy with the blue spots at who follows
> Tom Boonen over Mark Cavendish's head at 21 seconds into
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RNAYR3KPIg>.

Hmm!

> Amazingly, my bike was in one piece, though some of my skin wasn't. But
> once I realised I wasn't dead, and I could get back on the bike, I felt
> incredible. I got back on the bike and powered up the next hill in a
> state of bliss. I could have taken on anyone.

Wow.

That kind of thing happens to me, and I end up shaking like a leaf.

Noradrenaline's like that...

Oh yeah, I get the hyped-up-ness too, but I get that a lot and I don't
trust it - yeah, yeah, you get a boost, sure you do. Then it wears off
and oh boy the come-down's fierce and while you're up, just what was it
you got up to? Oh dear, shouldn't have done that...

No, you can't trust your judgement when you're in that state, best not
to take advantage of it unless it's something /real/ like you really do
have someone legging it after you trying to do you serious harm[1].

So take it easy, make sure you're not doing anything stupid, slow down,
ease off, wait for the shakes to hit, wait for them to wear off.

Anything else might be fatal (very easily when you're up a mountain).

Rowland.

[1] Only once in my life. I was running flat out - moving through
treacle as in a nightmare, or so I thought. Eventually I wasted pace
and glanced back. The three thugs who had attacked me were a long way
back - one on the floor, heheheheh. Adrenaline, noradrenaline, and
friends are powerful drugs.

It's usually a bad idea to try to mug someone who (as I did back then)
plays rugby and cycled most places too. Fit, fast, strong - and quite
hard either to stop or to batter into submission, you know? I got
surrounded, grabbed, and smacked in the face. So I ran away - well,
seemed the obvious solution.

--
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From: Woody on
Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote:

> D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > Once information has gone into a PDF, it is just words, any structure it
> > > > has is completely lost.
> > > >
> > > > It is a purely display only format.
> > >
> > > There is tagged PDF though, which tries to address exactly this problem.
> >
> > PDF is basically built upon PostScript, a language intended to be
> > interpreted by laser printers. All it does it tell the device: make
> > such-and-such a mark here.
>
> Oh no it doesn't.
>
> The design intention of PS is that it's meant for drawing on paper, but
> since PS is a full-on programming language, it's much much more than a
> mere page description method.

Wasn't he reffering to PDF though, which is just a page description
language with a couple of other things thrown in, and none of the PS
programming language available.

> > It seems like the worst possible starting-point for trying to preserve
> > semantic content, never mind achieve accessibility.
>
> Links can be added - internal and external. Code can likewise be added.
> Tags and labels can be specified to preserve semantic content *IF* you
> care to define a standard for doing so (or there's no meaning). And I
> don't know what else. Basically, you can add the necessary structure to
> PDFs /if you want to/.
>
> And since PDFs are all created by software, well, I don't see any
> serious problem with implementing properly flexible e-book type things
> in PDF, should someone wish to do the donkey work to get it good.

There is an eBook pdf format.
It works ok.

> I've got an RPN calculator somewhere - implemented as a pdf file,
> generated from a TeX source.
>
> Yep, open the PDF in your PDF viewer

Although in most of these cases, assuming your PDF viewer is Adobe
Acrobat.

> and you've got an RPN calculator,
> working buttons, calculator display for the output, all that good stuff.

Yes, PDF allows a simple form of javascript on forms.

> Seems to me that PDF has plenty of flex - certainly nothing like `just
> put these marks here'.

It has the ability to have arbitrary constructs in it, as long as you
have something that knows what those constructs are.

The PDF format is very overblown as it is, and very few implimentations
allow the full specifications, apart from acrobat

--
Woody

www.alienrat.com
From: D.M. Procida on
Woody <usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> wrote:

> > > PDF is basically built upon PostScript, a language intended to be
> > > interpreted by laser printers. All it does it tell the device: make
> > > such-and-such a mark here.
> >
> > Oh no it doesn't.
> >
> > The design intention of PS is that it's meant for drawing on paper, but
> > since PS is a full-on programming language, it's much much more than a
> > mere page description method.
>
> Wasn't he reffering to PDF though, which is just a page description
> language with a couple of other things thrown in, and none of the PS
> programming language available.

Acually I didn't know that PS was executable. I thought it was just
descriptive, like HTML.

Daniele
From: Richard Tobin on
In article <1jl1qc3.weaxh81voyc8jN%real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk>,
D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:

>Acually I didn't know that PS was executable. I thought it was just
>descriptive, like HTML.

I was amazed to see that ghostscript's code for parsing PDF files is
written entirely in Postscript.

-- Richard
From: Chris Ridd on
On 2010-07-03 09:47:40 +0100, Richard Tobin said:

> In article
> <1jl1qc3.weaxh81voyc8jN%real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk>,
> D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
>> Acually I didn't know that PS was executable. I thought it was just
>> descriptive, like HTML.
> I was amazed to see that ghostscript's code for parsing PDF files is
> written entirely in Postscript.

Not so surprising, really - the original Acrobat "distiller" was a
Postscript program to clean up Postscript, converting it into what
became PDF.

--
Chris