From: Jim on
On 2010-07-02, zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm proud too, though less so. http://j.mp/bNLckT
>>> The annual UCSM post-pub fight is always fun. See you again next
>> > year!
>>>
>>> (despite what I said on Facebook, they look worse today than in that
>>> photo; at least I no longer look like I've spilled tomato sauce all
>> > over
>>> my face. Find it amusing that almost nobody at work has asked what's
>>> happened).
>>
>> er...what -did- happen?
>
> A friend and I were heading back from the pub (hint, this probably had
> something to do with it) on our bikes. I misjudged the steepness of a
> stream's banks, thinking at the speed I was going at my front wheel
> would hit the opposite bank head on (it was actually shallow enough that
> I wouldn't have got any air anyway). Braked hard and landed literally
> face-first in the dirt.
>
> It hurt, but could have been a lot worse.

[trying not to grin like a loon][*nearly* succeeding]

Jim
--
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"If you have enough book space, I don't want to talk to you."
Terry Pratchett
From: Rowland McDonnell on
Chris Ridd <chrisridd(a)mac.com> wrote:

> Jochem Huhmann said:
>
> > real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) writes:
> >
> >> Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Once information has gone into a PDF, it is just words, any structure it
> >>>> has is completely lost.
> >>>>
> >>>> It is a purely display only format.
> >>>
> >>> There is tagged PDF though, which tries to address exactly this problem.
> >>
> >> PDF is basically built upon PostScript, a language intended to be
> >> interpreted by laser printers. All it does it tell the device: make
> >> such-and-such a mark here.
> >>
> >> It seems like the worst possible starting-point for trying to preserve
> >> semantic content, never mind achieve accessibility.
> >
> > I'm certainly not advocating to use PDF as starting point for anything.
> > PDF is almost always created from something else (which may very well
> > have some structure in it) and if you have to create PDF anyway, a
> > structured PDF is better than an unstructured PDF.
>
> The last time I tried creating tagged PDFs (from Framemaker) the
> resulting files were massively bigger than untagged PDFs.

Not all software is created equal...

If I print to PDF from a PDF generated by pdfTeX, what MacOS X gives me
is larger than the original and (I'm told) inferior in quality from the
point of view of elegance and meeting required standards. Not that I
can judge myself.

> I'm not sure I've really seen any tagged PDFs in the wild. What do
> Preview, iPhones/the iBooks app etc make of them?

I dunno what a tagged pdf is really. But - somewhere - I have an RPN
calculator done as a PDF file that certainly works with Acrobat Reader
(not that I've used Acrobat Reader for years and years).

But I can't track it down on the Web, and failed to track it down here
(probably on a disc that's not mounted or something, gawd knows).

Rowland.

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From: Rowland McDonnell on
zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:

> D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]

> > What happened to your face though?
>
> What's wrong with my face?

Overgrown eyebrows and a nose as bad as mine? - or was that just due to
the wide angle lens?

Rowland.

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From: Rowland McDonnell on
Woody <usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> wrote:

> Jochem Huhmann wrote:
> > usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk (Woody) writes:
> >
> >> A PDF can not be set up in such a way to let you know what a piece of
> >> information means.
> >>
> >> Really at a basic level it is quite useless for structure. Even a table
> >> is a collection of words with lines drawn in it - there isn't the
> >> constructs inside a pdf to let the information within a table relate to
> >> itself.
> >>
> >> Once information has gone into a PDF, it is just words, any structure it
> >> has is completely lost.
> >>
> >> It is a purely display only format.
> >
> > There is tagged PDF though, which tries to address exactly this problem.
>
> I would say that it is really starting from the wrong end. Wouldn't it
> be better to start with something else that had structure, and put the
> display layout into it?

Well, yes - PDF is an output format, after all.

> You can embed full XML structures inside a PDF (or anything really,
> videos, viruses, whatever), but is that not just trying to re-engineer
> something to cope with something it was never designed (and contains no
> structure) to do?

I don't think so.

> Effectively you would just have the information twice

Well, yes, why not? Where's the problem with that? Mark up your input
file with structure, use your PDF creator to generate a structured
marked-up PDF, and Bob's yer auntie's live-in lover.

Does a small amount of apparent data inefficiency matter, if indeed
there is much?

Rowland.

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From: zoara on
Jim <jim(a)magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
> On 2010-07-02, zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm proud too, though less so. http://j.mp/bNLckT
>>>> The annual UCSM post-pub fight is always fun. See you again next
>>>> year!
>>>>
>>>> (despite what I said on Facebook, they look worse today than in
> > > > that
>>>> photo; at least I no longer look like I've spilled tomato sauce all
>>>> over
>>>> my face. Find it amusing that almost nobody at work has asked
> > > > what's
>>>> happened).
>>>
>>> er...what -did- happen?
>>
>> A friend and I were heading back from the pub (hint, this probably
> > had
>> something to do with it) on our bikes. I misjudged the steepness of a
>> stream's banks, thinking at the speed I was going at my front wheel
>> would hit the opposite bank head on (it was actually shallow enough
> > that
>> I wouldn't have got any air anyway). Braked hard and landed literally
>> face-first in the dirt.
>>
>> It hurt, but could have been a lot worse.
>
> [trying not to grin like a loon][*nearly* succeeding]
>
> Jim

About five minutes after it happened, I felt brilliant. Adrenaline is
really cool.

Feel bruised and battered now, though.

-z-

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