Management wars
in [Cobol]
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From: on 14 Sep 2005 12:39 In article <U2YVe.517$gK.29(a)newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>, Michael Mattias <michael.mattias(a)gte.net> wrote: ><docdwarf(a)panix.com> wrote in message news:dg97us$km9$1(a)reader1.panix.com... >> In article <oNUVe.485$jS.483(a)newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, >> Michael Mattias <michael.mattias(a)gte.net> wrote: >> >And just like being a programmer, the more of the required skills one has in >> >his chosen discipline, the better that person will be at that task. >> >> Here I must disagree, having seen too much 'Look, Ma, I'm a Programmer!' >> code. There are cases where the newbie, who does not know anything else, >> will generate a solution similar to that of the oldbie, who has seen more >> of the mistakes and knows to simplify; the journeyman... journeyperson... >> mid-level skilled folks can, at times, induce unnecessary complexity. > >"Manager" does not mean "best designer" or "best debugger" or "best trainer" >or "most hands-on-experience." That was not questioned; what I disagreed with was the assertion that 'the more of the required skills one has in his chosen discipline, the better that person will be at that task' and the example I gave was from the discipline of programming. > >The good manager will obtain, retain, and assign the right people to fill >these roles. As with so many other things... this might depend on what one is calling 'good'. As someone posted here a while back, in <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.cobol/msg/a405f0931918e6b9?dmode=source&hl=en> --begin quoted text: Ah yes... consider the scenario: Manager A's people put in 50, 60 hour weeks; something's always Happening which requires him to be running about, tearing out his hair and screaming about Emergencies. Manager B's team is quiet, happy, you can fire a cannon down the cubicle-aisle at 5:05pm and not hit a soul... and the work always Just Gets Done. Who is the better manager? Who will get raises, promotions and recognition? --end quoted text My experiences are, of course, limited, but I have seen situations where Manager A gets raises, promotions and recognition; by those criteria he is considered to be 'more good' (better). [snip] >In 1983 I was recruited to be general manager of a software firm (commercial >VAR); at the time, I could not spell COBOL, leave alone write it (all our >products were written in COBOL). In 1984 our firm was named one of the Top >Ten Small Software Firms in the US by our trade press, so I must have been >doing something right. Oh, I *cannot* resist... .... if 'doing something right' = 'buying a lot of the press' advertising space'... (sorry) [snip] >All I really had to do was recognize that, >turn 'em loose and back 'em up. Oh look, an 'all ya gotta do is' solution! Seriously, Mr Mattias, different environments reward different behaviors; I've been in old, large, wealthy organisations where the attitude is 'We are old, large and wealthy so Our Way *must* be Right!'... ignoring the fact that a certain mass of money has its own momentum and what they were doing Wrong was obscured by such things as the miracle of compound interest. DD
From: Michael Mattias on 14 Sep 2005 13:25 <docdwarf(a)panix.com> wrote in message news:dg9jnj$a0o$1(a)reader1.panix.com... > In article <U2YVe.517$gK.29(a)newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>, > Michael Mattias <michael.mattias(a)gte.net> wrote: > >The good manager will obtain, retain, and assign the right people to fill > >these roles. > > As with so many other things... this might depend on what one is calling > 'good'. As someone posted here a while back, in > <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.cobol/msg/a405f0931918e6b9?dmode=s ource&hl=en> > > --begin quoted text: > > Ah yes... consider the scenario: > > Manager A's people put in 50, 60 hour weeks; something's always Happening > which requires him to be running about, tearing out his hair and screaming > about Emergencies. > > Manager B's team is quiet, happy, you can fire a cannon down the > cubicle-aisle at 5:05pm and not hit a soul... and the work always Just > Gets Done. > > Who is the better manager? Who will get raises, promotions and > recognition? OK, so 'good' is subjective. (these *were* rhetorical questions, right?) (If they weren't: I shall not attempt to impose my own standards on others; making such evaluations is a right of ownership.) > >In 1983 I was recruited to be general manager of a software firm (commercial > >VAR); at the time, I could not spell COBOL, leave alone write it (all our > >products were written in COBOL). In 1984 our firm was named one of the Top > >Ten Small Software Firms in the US by our trade press, so I must have been > >doing something right. > > Oh, I *cannot* resist... > > ... if 'doing something right' = 'buying a lot of the press' advertising space'... Consider my posterior available for a ceremonial display of affection. At high noon. In Macy's front window. MCM
From: Binyamin Dissen on 14 Sep 2005 13:35 On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:17:56 GMT "Michael Mattias" <michael.mattias(a)gte.net> wrote: :>The good manager will obtain, retain, and assign the right people to fill :>these roles. Maybe he will assume one or more of them personally, but that's :>not a requirement. That the role *be* competently filled *is* a requirement :>for "manager." My best manager, when I worked at Western Electric, was one who did not try to pretend that he knew anything about computers. He realized that his job was to run interference, get his people promotions and raises, do the budgets, etc. He knew that his job description did not include getting involved in the actual programming or suggesting how to design the systems. -- Binyamin Dissen <bdissen(a)dissensoftware.com> http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies.
From: on 14 Sep 2005 13:57 In article <w2ZVe.501$jS.140(a)newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, Michael Mattias <michael.mattias(a)gte.net> wrote: ><docdwarf(a)panix.com> wrote in message news:dg9jnj$a0o$1(a)reader1.panix.com... >> In article <U2YVe.517$gK.29(a)newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>, >> Michael Mattias <michael.mattias(a)gte.net> wrote: >> >The good manager will obtain, retain, and assign the right people to fill >> >these roles. >> >> As with so many other things... this might depend on what one is calling >> 'good'. As someone posted here a while back, in >> ><http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.cobol/msg/a405f0931918e6b9?dmode=s >ource&hl=en> >> >> --begin quoted text: >> >> Ah yes... consider the scenario: >> >> Manager A's people put in 50, 60 hour weeks; something's always Happening >> which requires him to be running about, tearing out his hair and screaming >> about Emergencies. >> >> Manager B's team is quiet, happy, you can fire a cannon down the >> cubicle-aisle at 5:05pm and not hit a soul... and the work always Just >> Gets Done. >> >> Who is the better manager? Who will get raises, promotions and >> recognition? > >OK, so 'good' is subjective. Well... I'd call it 'an unqualified reification' but that's only because I get fancy sometimes; there is no 'good' but there is 'good for'. It might be said that while Manager A is good for getting raises and promotions, Manager B is good for getting the job done. >(these *were* rhetorical questions, right?) They might be seen as such... or they might be seen as others. What is Life without a bit of Mystery? >(If they weren't: I shall not attempt to impose my own standards on others; >making such evaluations is a right of ownership.) Hey, if it's the worst mistake you've made so far it's a Pretty Good Day. > >> >In 1983 I was recruited to be general manager of a software firm (commercial >> >VAR); at the time, I could not spell COBOL, leave alone write it (all our >> >products were written in COBOL). In 1984 our firm was named one of the Top >> >Ten Small Software Firms in the US by our trade press, so I must have been >> >doing something right. >> >> Oh, I *cannot* resist... >> >> ... if 'doing something right' = 'buying a lot of the press' advertising >space'... > >Consider my posterior available for a ceremonial display of affection. At >high noon. In Macy's front window. A most generous offer, Mr Mattias, but, sadly, I must refuse it on the grounds that I am so... unsophisticated that I reserve such attentions for those who have two X chromosomes. (would somebody tell Gimbel's?) DD
From: Joe Zitzelberger on 14 Sep 2005 22:38
In article <1126701410.742384.263270(a)o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Alistair" <alistair(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > In the US this is true of every position that I've seen - though > > > apparently > > > acting is useful for a political career...as well as having the right > > > dad. > > > > Acting is helpful in many ways. It is essentially public speaking, > > crowd pleasing and charm school rolled into one skill set. Acting might > > actually be harder than politics -- after all, people voluntarily give > > actors their money. > > > > But leave that aside. > > > > Don't you find it humorous that "having the right dad" is mentioned as a > > US attribute? In commentary involving the UK? > > > > Which place is it that makes one the absolute sovereign over like 18 > > nations just for being the initial recipient of the royal sperm? > > Actually, not the UK. We only make the recipient sovereign if it is a > male. A female would only ascend to the throne if she had no male > siblings. > Hmmm, rereading that I see that it could be taken in a slightly different manner than written. I was thinking about the egg as being the initial recipient... |