Microsoft ending newsgroup support
in [MFC]
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From: Uwe Kotyczka on 10 May 2010 04:15 The message, that MS wants to shut down it's news servers was posted in many of the affected groups. The response was quite different. In some groups there was no response at all, in others there were discussions about the alternatives. But nowhere I read about protest against MS' decision. I really would like to tell MS that this is really bad. But how? Simply writung an email to MS? I'm sure I will not even get an answer. Or, if so, it will be some computer generated blabla. I have the feeling to face a giant helplessly. Even more if I see no regular and no MVP to consider any protest. Looking at the discussed alternatives I see 3 general lines: - Some seem to arrange with the forums. They discuss about the NNTP bridge. - Some think about going to other existing (or not yet existing) groups somewhere in comp.* or <language>.comp.* - some hope that the affected groups will be hosted by other providers and hope the groups will not die. I think that everyone will take his own strategy to arrangre with the situation and think that therefore many excellelent "communities" will break. What can we do against that? Is there any chance at all?
From: Hector Santos on 10 May 2010 08:28 Hi Jerry, Rather than try to explain a rather complex concept in mail distribution practice, to get a grasp of how it works read section 9 and 10 of RFC 1849 which is as recent as of March 2010. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1849#section-9 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1849#section-10 In the end, which is really not justice to explain it all, is that you will not really know what the impact will be until the plug is pulled at msnews.microsoft.com. But as a matter of evidence, in general, I know its true because we develop, market and sell mail hosting servers for the past 25+ years that operate for multiple mail distribution networks. Once the name sake "owners" of a support forum, newsgroup(s) "echo(s)" as they were called in Fidonet, are gone, generally the activity will be cut drastically. In principle, that is because most people will go to "source" of their vendor, especially when it is free and direct. You don't need any other site or ISP with usenet feed access if you are only interested in microsoft support. PS: Not sure if you are aware but the host names "phx.gbl" is used by microsoft when a posting arrives at their site. e.g.; Message-ID: <uoQdDuj7KHA.3880(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.vc.mfc Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl PSS: Also see RFC 1036 and see the major notes added since then into RFC 1859, especially in regards to the mix semantics of redundancy. For long time implementators such as myself, it really hasn't changed when it comes to providing the hosting options for operators, but because of better hardware, higher bandwidths, there is a certain amount of allowance before red flags are raised. You are not going to worry about an individual posting the same message at 5 different sites because he is impatience. The dupes will be caught. However whem it comes to host to host distribution, for active feeds, you might accept some form of redundancy in case a site is down, but you consistency see in your logs the servers are working overtime to trap a huge set of dupes, then some node on the network is pumping dupes unnecessarily. No one will care until someone notices and maybe because of a bug up his butt, he might want to so something about it. -- HLS Jerry Coffin wrote: > In article <uoQdDuj7KHA.3880(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>, sant9442 > @nospam.gmail.com says... > > [ ... ] > >> Those other SITES only proved to work and be reliable with great >> participation only because on the backend one way or another, directly >> or indirectly, they were connecting to the main source: >> >> msnews.microsoft.com > > Do you have any evidence that this is really true? > > An NNTP article has a "Path:" header that tells what servers it went > through on the way from source to destination. I've done a search on > all the messages in this newsgroup from a couple of different servers > (aioe.org and sunsite.de) for roughly the last month. Of those, not > even *one* message has a Path showing that it either originated from > or passed through a Microsoft server at any point to get to those > servers. > > Based on what I've been able to find so far, it's entirely possible > that Microsoft has actually already had their servers shut down for > months now. I'm not saying that *is* the case, but I am saying that I > can't find any evidence that a significant, or even insignificant, > percentage of messages here depend on their servers, or even go > through their servers at all. >
From: BobF on 10 May 2010 08:45 news.eternal-september.org is my primary. I use aioe and telesweet as backups - which I don't need very often ... On 5/9/2010 5:43 PM, Hector Santos wrote: > Test of news.aioe.org posting. > > HA! The server restricted the TOO many quoted lines.. cutting it down.... > > Hector Santos wrote: > >> >> IMO, the reality is the centralization of MS NTTP Servers provided. >> >> Those other SITES only proved to work and be reliable with great >> participation only because on the backend one way or another, directly >> or indirectly, they were connecting to the main source: >> >> msnews.microsoft.com >> >> What people do not realize is that these microsoft.public.* were not >> part of the usenet backbone. So its not like losing the MS NNTP Server >> and everything will remain the same. >> >> No. Once that host is gone, the great participation we come to realize >> from all over the world will be cut off and cut down. In fact, you >> will see a major cut down in MVP input as well as the input from >> prolific participators. >> >> >>> Do they have the ability to shut down the name "microsoft.public." ? >> >> >> I don't think they fully realize the impact with the "3rd party >> branding" issues. Maybe they do and have outlined a plan when they >> cross that bridge. >> >
From: Stephen Wolstenholme on 10 May 2010 08:55 On Mon, 10 May 2010 08:28:53 -0400, Hector Santos <sant9442(a)nospam.gmail.com> wrote: >In the end, which is really not justice to explain it all, is that you >will not really know what the impact will be until the plug is pulled >at msnews.microsoft.com. AAMOI I disabled msnews.microsoft.com in the client application I use tow days ago. Messages are still arriving. Your message came via news.highwinds-media.com Steve -- Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com
From: Hector Santos on 10 May 2010 10:06
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 2010 08:28:53 -0400, Hector Santos > <sant9442(a)nospam.gmail.com> wrote: > >> In the end, which is really not justice to explain it all, is that you >> will not really know what the impact will be until the plug is pulled >> at msnews.microsoft.com. > > AAMOI I disabled msnews.microsoft.com in the client application I use > tow days ago. Messages are still arriving. Your message came via > news.highwinds-media.com > > Steve Hi Stephen, ..... which came via someone else, and someone else, and somewhere else, that came originally from msnews.microsoft.com (phx.gbl). What I'm saying is that once the msnews.microsoft.com (or the alais news.microsoft.com) host is no longer available, you will no longer see any mail that would of originated here. It is my opinion that many people (and servers) still go directly to news.microsoft.com, specially in the USA. I say that as a product support person. Anyway, if Microsoft really want to make this a smooth transition, Microsoft can solve this via DNS Change the A records for sub-domains news.microsoft.com msnews.microsoft.com which currently point to (using NSLOOKUP, open dos window) nslookup news.microsoft.com Non-authoritative answer: Name: msnews.microsoft.com Address: 207.46.248.16 Aliases: news.microsoft.com to some other trusted usenet feed IP address. Try it yourself. Its an easy test. 1) Edit your HOSTS file, example, for me: notepad f:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts 2) Add a line: 69.16.176.253 msnews.microsoft.com The IP is your news.highwinds-media.com nslookup news.highwinds-media.com Non-authoritative answer: Name: newsfarm.ams2.highwinds-media.com Address: 69.16.176.253 Aliases: news.highwinds-media.com So basically, you are using your HOSTS file as a little Poor's Man DNS server directory database to redirect host name IP resolution. Now you didn't have to change your CLIENT msnew.microsoft.com setup. If anything, probably need to add authentication because msnews.microsoft.com did not need authentication. But since the two sites share a common LIST: microsoft.public.* it should work the same. However, the transition is not as smooth. 1) The authentication issue. If microsoft changed the A records, then they will need to choose a site that doesn't require authentication. 2) Depending on the client, reindexing may be required since the "last read pointers" might not be persistent. So they need to find a site that has a direct mirror of the newsgroups "pointer" wise. Finally, keep in mind that according to Microsoft and the "Gate Keepers" of the usenet "LISTING", they plan to remove the microsoft.public.* newsgroups starting June 1 and up to the next 6 months. So your site will no longer had the groups to post in if its remains to be on par with usenet change notifications. 1) First a message by the "gate keepers:" http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.news.server/msg/6cf4bbc6284d92a3 Julien �LIE <iul...(a)nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> writes: > I just wanted to let you know that I will issue rmgroup control > articles, reflecting the changes that are bound to happen on > msnews.microsoft.com, when they occur. Therefore, if you want to > go on carrying these Microsoft newsgroups, you should not honour > my PGP key: > http://usenet.trigofacile.com/hierarchies/index.py?see=MICROSOFT > Note that a lot of microsoft.public.* is already obsolete > and unused. Thanks. For all the reasons previously discussed, I think this is the right move. The whole point of that hierarchy was that it was synchronized with Microsoft; without that point, there are lots of other hierarchies that can absorb the traffic, and without spreading it across way more groups than the residual traffic is likely to require. 2) Second, this is the update to microsoft announcement: ----------------- Update - Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Community (Posted in microsoft.public.msn.netnews.discussion) o What is Happening? This message is to inform you that Microsoft will soon begin discontinuing newsgroups and transitioning users to Microsoft forums. o Why? As you may know, newsgroups have existed for many years now; however, the traffic in the Microsoft newsgroups has been steadily decreasing for the past several years while customers and participants are increasingly finding solutions in the forums on Microsoft properties and third party sites. This move will unify the customer experience, centralize content, make it easier for active contributors to retain their influence, mitigate redundancies and make the content easier to find by customers and search engines through improved indexing. Additionally, forums offer a better user and spam management platform that will improve customer satisfaction by encouraging a healthy discussion in a clean community space. To this end, Microsoft will begin to progressively shift available resources to the forums technology and discontinue support for newsgroups. In addition to offering a compelling online browser experience, for those users who prefer to use an NNTP (newsgroup) reader to participate in the newsgroups community, we have developed a solution called the NNTP Bridge which allows a user to connect a variety of supported NNTP readers to the forums they would like to participate in and continue having the NTTP reader functionality. You can find instructions on how to download and set up the NNTP Bridge here: http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/ o Which Newsgroups Are Affected by this Shutdown? All public newsgroups will eventually be closed between June 1, 2010 and October 1, 2010. Microsoft will be closing newsgroups in a phased approach, starting with the least active newsgroups and moving eventually to more active ones throughout the course of the next six months. o When will this Happen? Effective June 1, 2010 this newsgroup will be closed. o Where Should I go with the Closure of this Newsgroup? Microsoft has a large selection of forums, many of which cover either the same or closely related technologies to the ones found in the newsgroups. The forums have seen amazing growth and are an excellent place to continue the discussion. We recommend that you start with http://windowslivehelp.com/ Should you want to visit the other Microsoft Forums, please go to http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx o Who Should I Contact with any Questions? Send any questions about the process, recommended forums and timing to NNTP(a)microsoft.com ----------------- Again, we don't know until it finally does happen. -- HLS |