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From: Stephen Powell on 15 Mar 2010 23:10
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:20:28 -0400 (EDT), Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:48:46 -0400 (EDT), Stephen Powell wrote:
>> If you will provide the following information, I'll be glad to take
>> a look at it for you.
>
> Thanks, Stephen. That's very kind of you. I've changed the subject
> header, and removed references, so this should appear as a new thread;
> We're no longer doing kernel stuff.

I meant to do that myself and forgot. Thanks.

>> (1) What release of Debian are you running (Lenny, Squeeze, etc.)
>
> I permanently run testing.
>
>> (2) What is the make and model of your computer
>
> It's a homebrew system built on an ASUS M3N78 PRO mobo, with a dual core
> AMD64 processor.
>
>> (3) What is the make and model of your video card
>
> Onboard the mobo, an nVidia chipset, reported as GeForce 8300
> compatible, but called C77. (Xorg rejects it as unknown, but when
> generating a .config file correctly selects the nv driver).
>
>> (4) What is the make and model of your monitor
>
> LG W2024. Native screen resolution is 1680 x 1050, but I currently get
> 1280 x 1024.
>
>> (5) What is the current contents of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file
>
> Empty (i.e. there isn't one)
>
>> (6) What is the current contents of your /var/log/Xorg.0.log file
>
> ...
> (WW) NV: Ignoring unsupported device 0x10de0848 (C77 [GeForce 8300]) at 02(a)00:00:0
> ...

The above is the most important entry in the log file. You have
an unsupported chipset. Therefore, the nv driver cannot be used
unless you know the chipset to be compatible with another chipset
which is supported and you do a chipset override. For example,
something like

Chipset "G80"

in the "Device" section might work. I'm not making any promises.
If it doesn't, look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log for error messages.
Sometimes, if you give an invalid value for Chipset it will list
what the valid values are, and you may find something there that
is close enough to work.

Another possibility
is to install the xserver-xorg-video-nv package from unstable, which
is newer and *might* support your chipset. Otherwise, you're stuck with
the VESA driver, which uses the video BIOS to set video modes; and the
resolution you want, which is 1680x1050 I presume, is not one of the
video modes available from the video BIOS. 1280x1024 is the best that
the video BIOS can do. Since your monitor *does* support DDC2/EDID,
you *don't* want to use

Option "NoDDC"

which is present in the "Device" section that you generated. Take that out.

--
.''`. Stephen Powell <zlinuxman(a)wowway.com>
: :' :
`. `'`
`-


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From: Ron Johnson on 15 Mar 2010 23:30
On 2010-03-15 22:08, Stephen Powell wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:20:28 -0400 (EDT), Brad Rogers wrote:
[snip]
>> (WW) NV: Ignoring unsupported device 0x10de0848 (C77 [GeForce 8300]) at 02(a)00:00:0
>> ...
>
> The above is the most important entry in the log file. You have
> an unsupported chipset. Therefore, the nv driver cannot be used
> unless you know the chipset to be compatible with another chipset
> which is supported and you do a chipset override. For example,
> something like
>
> Chipset "G80"

I like my 7300SE. Cheap and fanless. Doesn't support VDPAU, though.

> in the "Device" section might work. I'm not making any promises.
> If it doesn't, look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log for error messages.
> Sometimes, if you give an invalid value for Chipset it will list
> what the valid values are, and you may find something there that
> is close enough to work.
>
> Another possibility
> is to install the xserver-xorg-video-nv package from unstable, which
> is newer and *might* support your chipset.

Or the (what's that hissing noise coming from Boston?) nvidia binary
driver. Lots of people hate it, it's not perfect (but darn it if
there's not a single non-trivial perfect FLOSS system out there
either!), and they regularly drop support for older chips, but where
the rubber hits the road, it works a damned site better than the nv
driver.

Best of all, when it *does* break, you can always go back to nv
until it's fixed. Woo hoo! Ain't choice great!

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have given
us arms." Mike Ditka


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From: Stephen Powell on 16 Mar 2010 10:50
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:20:13 -0400 (EDT), Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2010-03-15 22:08, Stephen Powell wrote:
>> Another possibility
>> is to install the xserver-xorg-video-nv package from unstable, which
>> is newer and *might* support your chipset.
>
> Or the (what's that hissing noise coming from Boston?) nvidia binary
> driver. Lots of people hate it, it's not perfect (but darn it if
> there's not a single non-trivial perfect FLOSS system out there
> either!), and they regularly drop support for older chips, but where
> the rubber hits the road, it works [...] better than the nv driver.

Yes, the proprietary nvidia binary driver is another possibility. It's
great when it works, but it breaks often with maintenance to X or
the kernel.

> Best of all, when it *does* break, you can always go back to nv
> until it's fixed. Woo hoo! Ain't choice great!

Except in this case, nv doesn't work. He would have to fall back
to VESA, which is not only slower, but does not support his monitor's
full resolution.

--
.''`. Stephen Powell <zlinuxman(a)wowway.com>
: :' :
`. `'`
`-


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From: Mark Allums on 16 Mar 2010 11:40
On 3/16/2010 9:46 AM, Stephen Powell wrote:
> Yes, the proprietary nvidia binary driver is another possibility. It's
> great when it works, but it breaks often with maintenance to X or
> the kernel.

It always requires reinstalling with kernel ABI changes, because it
requires a kernel module compiled for the running kernel. That also
makes it hard to run a different kernel and switch between them. A
change to X also usually require a reinstall, and often a new version of
the driver, as changes to X often *do* break the driver.

A real problem is that Debian is not compatible with the proprietary
driver. Routine system maintenance overwrites files and ruins
configurations, requiring reconfiguration. The proprietary driver is
not packaged like a regular Debian package, and is not installed "in the
Debian Way". This has up to now been mostly harmless, but things could
be better.


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From: Sven Joachim on 16 Mar 2010 12:10
On 2010-03-16 16:35 +0100, Mark Allums wrote:

> On 3/16/2010 9:46 AM, Stephen Powell wrote:
>> Yes, the proprietary nvidia binary driver is another possibility. It's
>> great when it works, but it breaks often with maintenance to X or
>> the kernel.
>
> It always requires reinstalling with kernel ABI changes, because it
> requires a kernel module compiled for the running kernel. That also
> makes it hard to run a different kernel and switch between them. A
> change to X also usually require a reinstall, and often a new version
> of the driver, as changes to X often *do* break the driver.

This does indeed happen sometimes, but if you use the latest version of
the Nvidia driver, it is usually compatible with released version of X.
Of course, if you want to run experimental pre-release version of X.Org
you run into problems more often.

> A real problem is that Debian is not compatible with the proprietary
> driver. Routine system maintenance overwrites files and ruins
> configurations, requiring reconfiguration. The proprietary driver is
> not packaged like a regular Debian package, and is not installed "in
> the Debian Way". This has up to now been mostly harmless, but things
> could be better.

Why not use nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-source from non-free which
_are_ available as regular Debian packages? They do not suffer from the
problems that you describe here.

Sven


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