NASA Caught in Climate Data Manipulation
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From: Mike Jr on 18 Jan 2010 13:46 On Jan 18, 1:42 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 1/18/10 11:42 AM, Mike Jr wrote: > > > > > On Jan 18, 12:01 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 1/18/10 1:38 AM, Mike Jr wrote: > > >>> On Jan 17, 11:28 pm, Surfer<n...(a)spam.net> wrote: > >>>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:34:13 -0800 (PST), Mike Jr > > >>>> <n00s...(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >>>>> On Jan 17, 2:07 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> On 1/17/10 11:07 AM, Marvin the Martian wrote: > > >>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:20:31 +1030, Surfer wrote: > > >>>>>>> So, you're so ignorant of physics that you think that melting ice ALWAYS > >>>>>>> proves warming. > > >>>>>> Gee, Marvin, must have been all that extra salt! > > >>>>> Sam, > >>>>> NASA says that it was the winds blowing the ice south where it then > >>>>> melted. But both you and Surfer know this because I have stated it > >>>>> before and supplied the NASA link. > > >>>> From the link you gave:http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html > > >>>> ".....Nghiem said the rapid decline in winter perennial ice the past > >>>> two years was caused by unusual winds. "Unusual atmospheric conditions > >>>> set up wind patterns that compressed the sea ice, loaded it into the > >>>> Transpolar Drift Stream and then sped its flow out of the Arctic," he > >>>> said. When that sea ice reached lower latitudes, it rapidly melted in > >>>> the warmer waters...." > > >>>> That is a reasonable explanation for the RECORD loss discussed at the > >>>> link for the two years concerned. > > >>>> But the STEADY long decline could only be due to temperature, as I > >>>> havn't seen a steady long term increase in winds and currents > >>>> reported. > > >>> Steady long decline? As in monotonic? The data says otherwise. > > >>>http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm > > >>> 2007 was the worst, 2008 better, 2009 back to normal. > > >>> --Mike Jr. > > >> Thirty-year averages, Mike... not year by year. > > >> Learn the Difference Between Weather and Climate! > > I believe that I do know the difference between weather and climate. > > The satellite data goes back to 2002. The question was about winds > > blowing the ice out to warmer waters in 2007. That has stopped in > > 2009. > > >> The difference between weather and climate is a measure of time. Weather > >> is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, > >> and climate is how the atmosphere "behaves" over relatively long periods > >> of time (at least 30 years). > > >> In various parts of the world, some people have even noticed that > >> springtime comes earlier now than it did 30 years ago. An earlier > >> springtime is indicative of a possible change in the climate. > > > How much ice was at the north pole in the winter of 1958-9? > > > Hint: the nuclear submarine in all that open water. > > > --Mike Jr. > > What is the 30 year pattern? What is the 60 year pattern?
From: Bill Snyder on 18 Jan 2010 13:54 On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:54:10 -0800 (PST), Mike Jr <n00spam(a)comcast.net> wrote: >On Jan 18, 12:42 pm, Mike Jr <n00s...(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> On Jan 18, 12:01 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On 1/18/10 1:38 AM, Mike Jr wrote: >> >> > > On Jan 17, 11:28 pm, Surfer<n...(a)spam.net> wrote: >> > >> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:34:13 -0800 (PST), Mike Jr >> >> > >> <n00s...(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> > >>> On Jan 17, 2:07 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >>>> On 1/17/10 11:07 AM, Marvin the Martian wrote: >> >> > >>>>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:20:31 +1030, Surfer wrote: >> >> > >>>>> So, you're so ignorant of physics that you think that melting ice ALWAYS >> > >>>>> proves warming. >> >> > >>>> Gee, Marvin, must have been all that extra salt! >> >> > >>> Sam, >> > >>> NASA says that it was the winds blowing the ice south where it then >> > >>> melted. But both you and Surfer know this because I have stated it >> > >>> before and supplied the NASA link. >> >> > >> From the link you gave:http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html >> >> > >> ".....Nghiem said the rapid decline in winter perennial ice the past >> > >> two years was caused by unusual winds. "Unusual atmospheric conditions >> > >> set up wind patterns that compressed the sea ice, loaded it into the >> > >> Transpolar Drift Stream and then sped its flow out of the Arctic," he >> > >> said. When that sea ice reached lower latitudes, it rapidly melted in >> > >> the warmer waters...." >> >> > >> That is a reasonable explanation for the RECORD loss discussed at the >> > >> link for the two years concerned. >> >> > >> But the STEADY long decline could only be due to temperature, as I >> > >> havn't seen a steady long term increase in winds and currents >> > >> reported. >> >> > > Steady long decline? As in monotonic? The data says otherwise. >> >> > >http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm >> >> > > 2007 was the worst, 2008 better, 2009 back to normal. >> >> > > --Mike Jr. >> >> > Thirty-year averages, Mike... not year by year. >> >> > Learn the Difference Between Weather and Climate! >> >> I believe that I do know the difference between weather and climate. >> The satellite data goes back to 2002. The question was about winds >> blowing the ice out to warmer waters in 2007. That has stopped in >> 2009. >> >> >> >> > The difference between weather and climate is a measure of time. Weather >> > is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, >> > and climate is how the atmosphere "behaves" over relatively long periods >> > of time (at least 30 years). >> >> > In various parts of the world, some people have even noticed that >> > springtime comes earlier now than it did 30 years ago. An earlier >> > springtime is indicative of a possible change in the climate. >> >> How much ice was at the north pole in the winter of 1958-9? >> >> Hint: the nuclear submarine in all that open water. >In case you can't find the link: >http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/26/ice-at-the-north-pole-in-1958-not-so-thick/ >> As for "all that open water": "The Ice at the polar ice cap is an average of 6-8 feet thick, but with the wind and tides the ice will crack and open into large polynyas (areas of open water), these areas will refreeze over with thin ice. We had sonar equipment that would find these open or thin areas to come up through, thus limiting any damage to the submarine. The ice would also close in and cover these areas crushing together making large ice ridges both above and below the water. We came up through a very large opening in 1958 that was 1/2 mile long and 200 yards wide." <http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/26/ice-at-the-north-pole-in-1958-not-so-thick/> -- Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
From: Mike Jr on 18 Jan 2010 13:56 On Jan 18, 1:42 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 1/18/10 11:42 AM, Mike Jr wrote: > > > > > On Jan 18, 12:01 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 1/18/10 1:38 AM, Mike Jr wrote: > > >>> On Jan 17, 11:28 pm, Surfer<n...(a)spam.net> wrote: > >>>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:34:13 -0800 (PST), Mike Jr > > >>>> <n00s...(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >>>>> On Jan 17, 2:07 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> On 1/17/10 11:07 AM, Marvin the Martian wrote: > > >>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:20:31 +1030, Surfer wrote: > > >>>>>>> So, you're so ignorant of physics that you think that melting ice ALWAYS > >>>>>>> proves warming. > > >>>>>> Gee, Marvin, must have been all that extra salt! > > >>>>> Sam, > >>>>> NASA says that it was the winds blowing the ice south where it then > >>>>> melted. But both you and Surfer know this because I have stated it > >>>>> before and supplied the NASA link. > > >>>> From the link you gave:http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html > > >>>> ".....Nghiem said the rapid decline in winter perennial ice the past > >>>> two years was caused by unusual winds. "Unusual atmospheric conditions > >>>> set up wind patterns that compressed the sea ice, loaded it into the > >>>> Transpolar Drift Stream and then sped its flow out of the Arctic," he > >>>> said. When that sea ice reached lower latitudes, it rapidly melted in > >>>> the warmer waters...." > > >>>> That is a reasonable explanation for the RECORD loss discussed at the > >>>> link for the two years concerned. > > >>>> But the STEADY long decline could only be due to temperature, as I > >>>> havn't seen a steady long term increase in winds and currents > >>>> reported. > > >>> Steady long decline? As in monotonic? The data says otherwise. > > >>>http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm > > >>> 2007 was the worst, 2008 better, 2009 back to normal. > > >>> --Mike Jr. > > >> Thirty-year averages, Mike... not year by year. > > >> Learn the Difference Between Weather and Climate! > > I believe that I do know the difference between weather and climate. > > The satellite data goes back to 2002. The question was about winds > > blowing the ice out to warmer waters in 2007. That has stopped in > > 2009. > > >> The difference between weather and climate is a measure of time. Weather > >> is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, > >> and climate is how the atmosphere "behaves" over relatively long periods > >> of time (at least 30 years). > > >> In various parts of the world, some people have even noticed that > >> springtime comes earlier now than it did 30 years ago. An earlier > >> springtime is indicative of a possible change in the climate. > > > How much ice was at the north pole in the winter of 1958-9? > > > Hint: the nuclear submarine in all that open water. > > > --Mike Jr. > > What is the 30 year pattern? I am already doing all the work. :-) --Mike Jr.
From: Sam Wormley on 18 Jan 2010 14:09 On 1/18/10 12:46 PM, Mike Jr wrote: > > What is the 60 year pattern? Easy! Human contributed increase in green house gas CO2 http://www.globalchange.gov/HighResImages/1-Global-pg-13.jpg http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/10/16/0907094106 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091023163513.htm Global surface (land and sea) temperature increase http://www.pewclimate.org/docUploads/images/global-surface-temp-trends.gif And accompanying Sea Level Rise http://www.wildwildweather.com/forecastblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/700px-recent_sea_level_rise.png
From: Sam Wormley on 18 Jan 2010 14:09
On 1/18/10 12:56 PM, Mike Jr wrote: > > I am already doing all the work. :-) > > --Mike Jr. :-) |