Origins of the universe [Math]

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From: Nick Keighley on 28 Jun 2010 10:35

On 27 June, 22:48, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 27, 5:18�pm, Mark Isaak <eci...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:31:26 -0700, mpc755 wrote:

> > > Aether and matter are different states of the same material. The
> > > material is maether.
> > > Maether has mass.
> > > Aether and matter have mass.
> > > Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether. Aether
> > > is displaced by matter.
>
> > In what muniverse?

just quoting the same stuff over and over again doesn't make you look
smart

> Answer the following:
>
> A C-60 molecule is in the slit(s).

what does "in the slits" mean? I guess what you mean is the twin slits
experiment. A beam of small particles is "shone" onto an impervious
surface. The surface is pierced by two narrow slits. A second screen
stops the particles that get through the slits. The original
experiment was done with light to try and answer the question "is
light a bunch of little objects or a wave?". The answer seems to be a
bit of both. If the slits are left unobstructed an interference
pattern forms characteristic of a wave phenomenom. Implying each
particle is somehow travelling though both slits or the particles are
communicating to form the pattern. If a detector is placed near the
slit each partical unambiguously only goes through one slit but the
interference pattern vanishes. This implies light is made of little
thingies. The same thing can be extended to any small particle.
Electrons and protons exhibit wave like properties. And now macro
molecules like C60 (aka a bucky ball) have also run the Young's slits
guantlet.

> Detectors are placed at the exits.
> The C-60 molecule is always detected exiting a single slit.

a particular C60 unambiguously goes through one slit. C60s go through
both slits equally though.

Oh, and why the fascination with C60? Your exposition doesn't seem
require C60 but anything small enough to show wave particle duality
would do.

> A C-60
> molecule is in the slit(s).

?

> Detectors are placed and removed from the
> exits to the slits. Repeat and the C-60 molecule creates an
> interference pattern.

the detectors are moved far from the slits so you can no longer detect
which slit a particular C60 went through

> A moving C-60 molecule has an associated aether displacement wave.

woo. I might admit to a Debroglie Pilot Wave but methinks you are
beginning to make up your physics.

> The
> C-60 molecule itself occupies a very small region of the wave.

probably

>The
> C-60 molecule enters and exits a single slit in a double slit
> experiment.

how do you know?

> The associated aether displacement wave enters and exits
> the available slits. When the aether displacement wave exits the slits
> it creates interference which alters the direction the C-60 molecule
> travels. Detecting the C-60 molecule causes decoherence of the
> associated aether displacement wave (i.e. turns it into chop)

into *what*?

> and there is no interference.

There are other interpreattions of QM that don't involve collapse of
the wave function. You seem to have a deBroglie crossed with a good
old fashioned copenhagen. No Many-Worlds (Everett) then?

[side bar:

quantum mechanics is a highly mathematical theory of physics that
effectivly tells you what you should observe for a particular setup.
People want to assign some "meaning" to the equations and get
themselves into a terrible tangle when they do. Copenhagen and Everett
are two such interpretations they don't actually give different
answers to the question "so what will I see if do this experiment?".
But only to the "so what *actually* happened then?" question)

This is why I questioned how he knew the C60 had gone through only one
of the slits. If you don't have a detector at the slit QM remains
silent. Copenhagen says it goes through both. Everett says the
universe forks into two new universes. In one it goes through the
first slit in the other it goes through the second. We are in a random
one of those two new universes.
]

> Why is a C-60 molecule always detected exiting a single slit?

it isn't if you move the detectors

> Because the C-60 molecule always enters and exits a single slit. Duh!

only if you leave the detectords by the slits

> Enjoy your inability to understand the physics of nature.

oh I do

> Aether and matter are different states of the same material.

very definitely making it up now. Do you have a experiment that can
show this?

> The material is maether.
> Maether has mass.
> Aether and matter have mass.
> Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether.
> Aether is displaced by matter.
> The aether is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
> The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the aether.
> Gravity is pressure exerted by displaced aether towards matter.
>
> 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html
>
> "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections
> with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places".
>
> The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the
> matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the
> aether's state of displacement.
>
> "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is
> unthinkable"
>
> 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A.
> EINSTEIN'http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf
>
> "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
> diminishes by L/c2."

yes

> The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
> exists as part of the body has not vanished.

no, it's turned into radiation. Radiation has momentum.

> It still exists, as
> aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three
> dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether
> and matter is energy.

this aether is amazing it both acts as the pilot wave in QM *and*
appears to be the space-time of GR. You have synthesised the formerly
unsynthesised! I see its gravity that guides the C60 molecule!

--
nick keighley

From: Nick Keighley on 28 Jun 2010 10:59

On 28 June, 02:00, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 27, 5:53�pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 27, 6:10 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 27, 2:48 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 27, 5:18 pm, Mark Isaak <eci...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:31:26 -0700, mpc755 wrote:
> > > > > > Aether and matter are different states of the same material. The
> > > > > > material is maether.
> > > > > > Maether has mass.
> > > > > > Aether and matter have mass.
> > > > > > Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether. Aether
> > > > > > is displaced by matter.
>
> > > > > In what muniverse?
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
> > > > > "It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
> > > > > honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
> > > > > pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
>
> > > > Answer the following:
>
> > > > A C-60 molecule is in the slit(s). Detectors are placed at the exits.
> > > > The C-60 molecule is always detected exiting a single slit. A C-60
> > > > molecule is in the slit(s). Detectors are placed and removed from the
> > > > exits to the slits. Repeat and the C-60 molecule creates an
> > > > interference pattern.
>
> > > > A moving C-60 molecule has an associated aether displacement wave. The
> > > > C-60 molecule itself occupies a very small region of the wave. The
> > > > C-60 molecule enters and exits a single slit in a double slit
> > > > experiment. The associated aether displacement wave enters and exits
> > > > the available slits. When the aether displacement wave exits the slits
> > > > it creates interference which alters the direction the C-60 molecule
> > > > travels. Detecting the C-60 molecule causes decoherence of the
> > > > associated aether displacement wave (i.e. turns it into chop) and
> > > > there is no interference.
>
> > > > Why is a C-60 molecule always detected exiting a single slit?
>
> > > > Because the C-60 molecule always enters and exits a single slit. Duh!
>
> > > > Enjoy your inability to understand the physics of nature.
>
> > > > Aether and matter are different states of the same material.
> > > > The material is maether.
> > > > Maether has mass.
> > > > Aether and matter have mass.
> > > > Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether.
> > > > Aether is displaced by matter.
> > > > The aether is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
> > > > The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the aether.
> > > > Gravity is pressure exerted by displaced aether towards matter.
>
> > > > 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html
>
> > > > "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections
> > > > with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places".
>
> > > > The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the
> > > > matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the
> > > > aether's state of displacement.
>
> > > > "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is
> > > > unthinkable"
>
> > > > 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A.
> > > > EINSTEIN'http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf
>
> > > > "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
> > > > diminishes by L/c2."
>
> > > > The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
> > > > exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as
> > > > aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three
> > > > dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether
> > > > and matter is energy.
>
> > > The experiments you have heard about are intellectual dishonesty.
> > > Science has been making things up and is going to pay for it when it
> > > is revealed in the future.
>
> > > Please stoip using it as your source.
>
> > > Mitch Raemsch
>
> > It is the Copenhagen interpretation of what occurs physically in
> > nature in the experiments which is delusional.
>
> > There is a lot of experimental evidence of particles creating
> > interference patterns in double slit experiments. The interference
> > patterns build up over time as more and more particles are
> > individually detected.
>
> > 'File:Double-slit experiment results Tanamura 2.jpg'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Double-slit_experiment_results_Tana...
>
> > "Summary
>
> > Results of a double-slit-experiment performed by Dr. Tonomura showing
> > the build-up of an interference pattern of single electrons. Numbers
> > of electrons are 10 (a), 200 (b), 6000 (c), 40000 (d), 140000 (e).
>
> > (Provided with kind permission of Dr. Tonomura.)"
>
> > The particle travels a single path. The associated aether wave enters
> > and exits multiple slits. The aether wave creates interference which
> > alters the direction the particle travels. Detecting the particle
> > causes decoherence of the associated wave (i.e. turns the wave into
> > chop) and there is no interference.
>
> > The analogy is a boat and its bow wave. The boat enters and exits a
> > single slit. The bow wave enters and exits multiple slits. The wave
> > exits the slits and creates interference which alters the direction
> > the boat travels. Detecting the boat by placing buoys at the exits to
> > the slits causes decoherence of the associated wave (i.e. turns the
> > wave into chop) and there is no interference.
>
> > Why is a C-60 molecule always detected exiting a single slit in a
> > double slit experiment?
>
> > Because the C-60 molecule always enters and exits a single slit. Duh!-
>
> I don't believe the made of science that they shot that heavy molecule
> through two slits.

it's a clever bit of physics, but yes they've done the twin slits with
C60.

> I have one question: how big is that molecules wave?

using some very rough back-of-a-stamp calculations. I'd need a
velocity. So assuming velocity is 1m/s (unlikely).

wavelength electron = 1e-4m
wavelength proton = 1e-7m
wavelength bucky = 1e-10m

(wavelength = h / p)

From: mpc755 on 28 Jun 2010 20:07

On Jun 28, 10:35 am, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...(a)hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On 27 June, 22:48, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 27, 5:18 pm, Mark Isaak <eci...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:31:26 -0700, mpc755 wrote:
> > > > Aether and matter are different states of the same material. The
> > > > material is maether.
> > > > Maether has mass.
> > > > Aether and matter have mass.
> > > > Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether. Aether
> > > > is displaced by matter.
>
> > > In what muniverse?
>
> just quoting the same stuff over and over again doesn't make you look
> smart
>
> > Answer the following:
>
> > A C-60 molecule is in the slit(s).
>
> what does "in the slits" mean? I guess what you mean is the twin slits
> experiment. A beam of small particles is "shone" onto an impervious
> surface. The surface is pierced by two narrow slits. A second screen
> stops the particles that get through the slits. The original
> experiment was done with light to try and answer the question "is
> light a bunch of little objects or a wave?". The answer seems to be a
> bit of both. If the slits are left unobstructed an interference
> pattern forms characteristic of a wave phenomenom. Implying each
> particle is somehow travelling though both slits or the particles are
> communicating to form the pattern.

The moving particle has an associated wave.
The moving particle has an associated external wave.
The moving particle has an associated aether wave.

> If a detector is placed near the
> slit each partical unambiguously only goes through one slit but the
> interference pattern vanishes. This implies light is made of little
> thingies. The same thing can be extended to any small particle.
> Electrons and protons exhibit wave like properties. And now macro
> molecules like C60 (aka a bucky ball) have also run the Young's slits
> guantlet.
>
> > Detectors are placed at the exits.
> > The C-60 molecule is always detected exiting a single slit.
>
> a particular C60 unambiguously goes through one slit.

If a C-60 molecule unambiguously goes through one slit what does it
interfere with, or do you choose not to believe in conservation of
momentum?

What enters and exits multiple slits is the C-60 molecule's associated
aether displacement wave.

> C60s go through
> both slits equally though.
>

Correct. But each C-60 molecule enters and exits a single slit. The
moving C-60 molecule has an associated aether displacement wave. It is
the aether displacement wave which enters and exits multiples slits,
creating interference upon exiting the slits which alters the
direction the C-60 molecule, which entered and exited a single slit,
travels. Detecting the C-60 molecule causes decoherence of the
associated aether displacement wave (i.e. turns the wave into chop)
and there is no interference.

> Oh, and why the fascination with C60? Your exposition doesn't seem
> require C60 but anything small enough to show wave particle duality
> would do.

Explain how a C-60 molecule enters, travels through and exits multiple
slits simultaneously without requiring energy releasing energy or
having a change in momentum.

>
> > A C-60
> > molecule is in the slit(s).
>
> ?
>
> > Detectors are placed and removed from the
> > exits to the slits. Repeat and the C-60 molecule creates an
> > interference pattern.
>
> the detectors are moved far from the slits so you can no longer detect
> which slit a particular C60 went through
>

What is the C-60 molecule, which exits a single slit, interfering
with?

The direction the C-60 molecule travels is altered by the interference
created by its associated aether displacement wave.

The analogy of a boat and its bow wave is correct. The bow wave exits
multiple slits and creates interference which alters the direction the
boat travels. Detecting the boat by placing buoys at the exits to the
slits causes decoherence of the bow wave (i.e. turns the bow wave into
chop) and there is no interference.

> > A moving C-60 molecule has an associated aether displacement wave.
>
> woo. I might admit to a Debroglie Pilot Wave but methinks you are
> beginning to make up your physics.
>

'Interpretation of quantum mechanics
by the double solution theory
Louis de BROGLIE'
http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf

"I called this relation, which determines the particle's motion in the
wave, "the guidance formula". It may easily be generalized to the case
of an external field acting on the particle."

"This result may be interpreted by noticing that, in the present
theory, the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave
where the amplitude is very large, and it therefore seems quite
natural that the internal motion rythm of the particle should always
be the same as that of the wave at the point where the particle is
located."

de Broglie's definition of wave-particle duality is of a physical wave
and a physical particle. The particle occupies a very small region of
the wave.

In AD, the external field is the aether. In a double slit experiment
the particle occupies a very small region of the associated aether
wave and enters and exits a single slit. The aether wave enters and
exits the available slits.

> > The
> > C-60 molecule itself occupies a very small region of the wave.
>
> probably
>
> >The
> > C-60 molecule enters and exits a single slit in a double slit
> > experiment.
>
> how do you know?
>

Because it is always detected exiting a single slit. I realize in the
absurd nonsense of the Copenhagen interpretation of QM you must
disregard and ignore the experimental evidence of the particle ALWAYS
being detected in a double slit experiment. In Aether Displacement,
and in de Broglie wave mechanics the particle travels a single path.

> > The associated aether displacement wave enters and exits
> > the available slits. When the aether displacement wave exits the slits
> > it creates interference which alters the direction the C-60 molecule
> > travels. Detecting the C-60 molecule causes decoherence of the
> > associated aether displacement wave (i.e. turns it into chop)
>
> into *what*?
>

Have you ever been to the beach on a windy day?

> > and there is no interference.
>
> There are other interpreattions of QM that don't involve collapse of
> the wave function. You seem to have a deBroglie crossed with a good
> old fashioned copenhagen. No Many-Worlds (Everett) then?
>
> [side bar:
>
> quantum mechanics is a highly mathematical theory of physics that
> effectivly tells you what you should observe for a particular setup.
> People want to assign some "meaning" to the equations and get
> themselves into a terrible tangle when they do. Copenhagen and Everett
> are two such interpretations they don't actually give different
> answers to the question "so what will I see if do this experiment?".
> But only to the "so what *actually* happened then?" question)
>
> This is why I questioned how he knew the C60 had gone through only one
> of the slits. If you don't have a detector at the slit QM remains
> silent. Copenhagen says it goes through both. Everett says the
> universe forks into two new universes. In one it goes through the
> first slit in the other it goes through the second. We are in a random
> one of those two new universes.
> ]

There is zero evidence of the C-60 molecule exiting multiple slits.
The interference pattern is not evidence of the C-60 molecule exiting
multiple slits.

Every double slit experiment ever performed has ALWAYS detected the
particle exiting a single slit.

>
> > Why is a C-60 molecule always detected exiting a single slit?
>
> it isn't if you move the detectors
>
> > Because the C-60 molecule always enters and exits a single slit. Duh!
>
> only if you leave the detectords by the slits
>

That's the experiment. In order to determine if the C-60 molecule
exits one or multiple slits you place detectors at the exits to the
slits. The C-60 molecule is ALWAYS detected exiting a single slit.
This is experimental evidence of the C-60 molecule ALWAYS entering and
exiting a single slit.

Only in the absurd nonsense of the Copenhagen interpretation of QM
must you ignore the experimental evidence.

> > Enjoy your inability to understand the physics of nature.
>
> oh I do
>
> > Aether and matter are different states of the same material.
>
> very definitely making it up now. Do you have a experiment that can
> show this?
>

Gravity. The existence of matter. The observed behaviors of a double
slit experiment. Atomic Bombs.

>
>
> > The material is maether.
> > Maether has mass.
> > Aether and matter have mass.
> > Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether.
> > Aether is displaced by matter.
> > The aether is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'.
> > The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the aether.
> > Gravity is pressure exerted by displaced aether towards matter.
>
> > 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html
>
> > "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections
> > with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places".
>
> > The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the
> > matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the
> > aether's state of displacement.
>
> > "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is
> > unthinkable"
>
> > 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A.
> > EINSTEIN'http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf
>
> > "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
> > diminishes by L/c2."
>
> yes
>
> > The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
> > exists as part of the body has not vanished.
>
> no, it's turned into radiation. Radiation has momentum.
>

Mass does not convert to radiation. Mass is conserved. The transition
of matter to aether has momentum in the form of radiation.

> > It still exists, as
> > aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three
> > dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether
> > and matter is energy.
>
> this aether is amazing it both acts as the pilot wave in QM *and*
> appears to be the space-time of GR. You have synthesised the formerly
> unsynthesised! I see its gravity that guides the C60 molecule!
>

Aether Displacement is the most correct unified theory to date.

From: mpc755 on 28 Jun 2010 20:09

On Jun 28, 8:59 am, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...(a)hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On 27 June, 04:55, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 26, 11:33 pm, Boikat <boi...(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > On Jun 26, 10:27 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 26, 4:15 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > "I want to know how God created the universe. I want to know his
> > > > > thoughts. The rest are just details." Albert EInstein
>
> > > > > Hypersphere cosmology was the beginning with energy created in its
> > > > > surface of space. First there was inflation that stopped gravity from
> > > > > bringing it all back together. Einstein's universe is closed finite
> > > > > yet unbounded hypersphere cosmology.
>
> > > > > Mitch Raemsch
>
> > > > The universe is, or the local universe is in, a jet stream.
>
> > > > The following is an image of a jet stream:
>
> > > >http://aether.lbl.gov/image_all.html
>
> > > No, that's a schematic representation of size of the Universe through
> > > time.
>
> > It's not the Big Bang. It's the Big Ongoing.
>
> > Aether and matter are different states of the same material.
> > The material is maether.
> > Maether has mass.
>
> > Maether is continually emitted into the jet stream the universe is, or
> > the local universe exists in.
>
> > In the following image, '1st Stars' is where the pressure is great
> > enough to cause the maether to be compressed into matter.
>
> >http://aether.lbl.gov/image_all.html
>
> > The following image of the Rindler Horizon is also an image of the jet
> > stream the universe is, or the local universe exists in:
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rindler_coordinates#Geodesics-Hide quoted text -
>
> did someone not check the child gate was properly latched when they
> left sci.physics?

How is matter formed?

Are you going to say from energy? From radiation?

Mass is conserved.

Aether and matter are different states of the same material.
Aether is uncompressed maether and matter is compressed maether.

In the following image, '1st Stars' is where the pressure is great
enough to cause the maether to be compressed into matter.

http://aether.lbl.gov/image_all.html

A=Mc^2, where A is aether and M is matter.

From: aganunitsi on 28 Jun 2010 20:29

On Jun 28, 5:07 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
<aethereal snip>
> Correct. But each C-60 molecule enters and exits a single slit. The
> moving C-60 molecule has an associated aether displacement wave. It is
> the aether displacement wave which enters and exits multiples slits,
> creating interference upon exiting the slits which alters the
> direction the C-60 molecule, which entered and exited a single slit,
> travels. Detecting the C-60 molecule causes decoherence of the
> associated aether displacement wave (i.e. turns the wave into chop)
> and there is no interference.

You're not stating the entirety of observations made in a double slit
experiment. Only one detector pointed at one of the two slits is
required. Non-detection of a particle occurs 50% of the time (meaning
the particle must have gone through the other slit), but we do not
observe a 50% particle like strike pattern mixed with a 50% wave like
interference strike pattern on the final detector.

If there is a separate aether displacement wave that always goes
through both slits, this wouldn't be the observation.

<superpositional snip>
> Explain how a C-60 molecule enters, travels through and exits multiple
> slits simultaneously without requiring energy releasing energy or
> having a change in momentum.
<snip>

It's called superposition. I suggest you read up on quantum
decoherence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence