Python Forum
in [Python]
|
Prev: signed vs unsigned int
Next: Mixing Decimal and float
From: John Bokma on 4 Jun 2010 14:42 Emile van Sebille <emile(a)fenx.com> writes: > On 6/3/2010 10:41 PM Steven D'Aprano said... >> On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 06:15:20 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: >>> Most people use this list via e-mail, >> >> How do you know? Do you have evidence for this, or are you just making it >> up? >> > > Is there now a non-email method of posting to this list? No idea what "this list" is, but I am reading your message in Gnus via Usenet. -- John Bokma j3b Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/ http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development
From: Andreas Waldenburger on 4 Jun 2010 14:44 On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 20:36:02 +0200 "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps(a)start.no> wrote: > * Andreas Waldenburger, on 04.06.2010 20:21: > > On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 00:57:15 +1000 Ben Finney > > <ben+python(a)benfinney.id.au> wrote: > > > >> Andreas Waldenburger<usenot(a)geekmail.INVALID> writes: > >> > >>> But consolidation is the *only* way to go, really. The parallelism > >>> between c.l.p. and python-list is great already. Now throw some > >>> sort of Forum in the mix > >> > >> This already *is* a forum. Whatever it is you think is needed, it's > >> already a forum. Can you be more specific about what you would add? > >> > > > > I meant a web forum. > > You can access [comp.lang.python] via Google Groups and other web > based interfaces. > > So it already is a web forum. > Huh. I've never looked at it that way. OK, then. Forget what I said about Wave. Oh, you have? Good. ;) /W -- INVALID? DE!
From: Emile van Sebille on 4 Jun 2010 15:04 On 6/4/2010 11:27 AM Terry Reedy said... > On 6/4/2010 12:28 PM, Emile van Sebille wrote: > >> Is there now a non-email method of posting to this list? > > Google <==> comp.lang.python <==> python-list <==> > gmane.comp.python.general > > where <==> is a bi-directional gateway. Yes -- I use gmane as well. But, IIRC, I needed to be on the mail list in order for my responses to show up because MailMan is the primary back end and I thought it's set to only accept posts from members. Hence, my question. Aren't we all members posting (ultimately) exclusively through email regardless of preferred reading interfaces? Emile
From: Alf P. Steinbach on 4 Jun 2010 15:08 * John Bokma, on 04.06.2010 20:19: > Steven D'Aprano<steve(a)REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes: > >> But the really sad thing is that you think that "bigger" automatically >> equals "better". > > I don't think that was the point. > > Anyway, not everbody can pick a provider, there are plenty of places > that have only one or maybe two. And if that's the choice and neither > carries Usenet you have to pay for Usenet like I do. Note that I > consider it well worth the 10 euros I pay for it. > > To me, it looks like the use of Usenet for text is on the > decline. I've been away from Usenet for like a year or so and could see > quite a difference. More and more ISPs in my experience are dropping > Usenet from their services. Mind, I think that the number of users on > Usenet (text only) still exceeds the number when I first used Usenet > (back in the early 90's). But usage is on the decline as far as I can > tell. On top of that I see people I know from Usenet now quite active on > Stack Overflow and sister sites. > > Finally, I have to disagree with your disagreement (which is just a > personal experience) based on my personal experience: it's harder to > find an ISP that carries Usenet. And I have experience with, oh, just 3 > countries where I have been living in for the past 10 years. True. While Usenet traffic is still exponentially increasing, most of that's in binary groups, and it's spam. I think much of the decline of Usenet is correlated with an increase of laws designed to limit free speech and support all kinds surveillance. It started, as I see it, back in the early 90's with Playboy attempting to sue anyone who used the Lena picture in photo processing tests etc. (it's the standard image for that). They failed in that particular endeavour, but did succeed in shutting down thousands of sites worldwide displaying Playboy pictures. The Church of Scientology picked up on the idea that a private company can /control/ net content worldwide by way of laws designed for other things. The record and movie industry caught on to this. Governments of some special countries such China, Saudi-Arabia and Iran, plus, very suprising to me, Australia, caught on to it, that is, the idea of controlling net content, or at least access to that content. Then finally George W. Bush caught on to it, and with American ISPs legally responsible for the content of the traffic, well, the following from Wikipedia isn't quite chronological but is quite clear: <quote src="The Wikipedia article about Usenet"> In 2008, Verizon Communications, Time Warner Cable and Sprint Nextel signed an agreement with Attorney General of New York Andrew Cuomo to shut down access to sources of child pornography.[31] Time Warner Cable stopped offering access to Usenet. Verizon reduced its access to the "Big 8" hierarchies. Sprint stopped access to the alt.* hierarchies. AT&T stopped access to the alt.binaries.* hierarchies. Cuomo never specifically named Usenet in his anti-child pornography campaign. David DeJean of PC World said that some worry that the ISPs used Cuomo's campaign as an excuse to end portions of Usenet access, as it is costly for the internet service providers. In 2008 AOL, which no longer offered Usenet access, and the four providers that responded to the Cuomo campaign were the five largest internet service providers in the United States; they had more than 50% of the U.S. ISP marketshare.[32] On June 8, 2009, AT&T announced that it would no longer provide access to the Usenet service as of July 15, 2009.[33] AOL announced that it would discontinue its integrated Usenet service in early 2005, citing the growing popularity of weblogs, chat forums and on-line conferencing.[34] The AOL community had a tremendous role in popularizing Usenet some 11 years earlier,[citation needed] with all of its positive and negative aspects. This change marked the end of the legendary Eternal September. Others, however, feel that Google Groups, especially with its new user interface, has picked up the torch that AOL has dropped�and that the so-called Eternal September has yet to end.[citation needed] In August, 2009, Verizon announced that it would discontinue access to Usenet on September 30, 2009.[35][36] In April 2010, Cox Communications announced (via email) that it would discontinue Usenet service, effective June 30, 2010. JANET(UK) announced it will discontinue Usenet service, effective July 31, 2010, citing Google Groups as an alternative.[37] Microsoft announced that it would discontinue support for it's public newsgroups (msnews.microsoft.com) from June 1, 2010, offering web forums as an alternative. </quote> In short, in the future you will no longer be able to access old articles via archives such as Google Groups (Google picked up that archive from Deja News). Until some replacement for Usenet appears, online discussion will in general be effectively /local/, unknown to all but the parties currently using a given web forum, and it will in general not be archived. As I see it, those who have made and continue to make the decisions to make it that way, want it that way. Cheers, - Alf -- blog at <url: http://alfps.wordpress.com>
From: Lie Ryan on 4 Jun 2010 15:22
On 06/04/10 11:56, John Bokma wrote: > Phlip <phlip2005(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> On Jun 3, 3:20 pm, geremy condra <debat...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> You mean like how I never get answers, to my super-easy GED-level >>>> questions, here??! >>> >>> I agree. This proves conclusively that a web forum is the right >>> place for you. >> >> Ah, so you feel up to my "xsl for xmlrunner.py" question? > > Just jumping in the middle, but if you're looking for a web based forum > where you can ask questions, check out Stack Overflow (and sister sites, > depending on your question). I've noticed over the last couple of months > that often things I google for, are answered on Stack Overflow. One > thing that would've been nice to have on Usenet that I like is the > ability to vote answers up or down. I think Usenet would've been a bit > better with that option. Probably. A vote up/down feature tend to highlight popular problems, but it also buries less popular problems that might have perfectly good answers. I think Google Groups have 5-star-rating system? You might want to check on that. |