SR/GR use absolute time to synchronize the GPS clocks with the ground clock.
in [Physics]
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From: Sam Wormley on 22 Mar 2010 23:54 On 3/22/10 9:01 AM, kenseto wrote: > On Mar 21, 2:31 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 3/21/10 9:54 AM, kenseto wrote: >> >>> On Mar 21, 10:46 am, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 3/21/10 9:06 AM, kenseto wrote: >> >>>>> Hey idiot....you are describing a doppler(sic) situation. It got nothing to >>>>> do with the sychronization(sic) of two relatively moving clocks. >> >>>>> Ken Seto >> >>>> Why, pray tell, do you think one can ignore Doppler effects >>>> when measuring signals from moving clocks? >> >>> Hey idiot because the rate of the GPS clock compared to the ground >>> clock is not doppler effect dependent. >> >> Pulsars are affected by Doppler shift, as are interplanetary probes, >> global navigation satellite systems (GNSS) and any clock in radial >> motion with respect to an observer. Give us a break, Seto! > > Hey wormy use your tiny brain once in a while. The rate of a clock > moving wrt you does not change because it move toward you or away from > you. According to SR the rate of a clock moving wrt you is 1/gamma at > all time. > > Ken Seto Doppler, Seto, Doppler shift... you have to take it into account!
From: BURT on 22 Mar 2010 23:58 On Mar 22, 8:54 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 3/22/10 9:01 AM, kenseto wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 21, 2:31 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 3/21/10 9:54 AM, kenseto wrote: > > >>> On Mar 21, 10:46 am, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> On 3/21/10 9:06 AM, kenseto wrote: > > >>>>> Hey idiot....you are describing a doppler(sic) situation. It got nothing to > >>>>> do with the sychronization(sic) of two relatively moving clocks. > > >>>>> Ken Seto > > >>>> Why, pray tell, do you think one can ignore Doppler effects > >>>> when measuring signals from moving clocks? > > >>> Hey idiot because the rate of the GPS clock compared to the ground > >>> clock is not doppler effect dependent. > > >> Pulsars are affected by Doppler shift, as are interplanetary probes, > >> global navigation satellite systems (GNSS) and any clock in radial > >> motion with respect to an observer. Give us a break, Seto! > > > Hey wormy use your tiny brain once in a while. The rate of a clock > > moving wrt you does not change because it move toward you or away from > > you. According to SR the rate of a clock moving wrt you is 1/gamma at > > all time. > > > Ken Seto > > Doppler, Seto, Doppler shift... you have to take it into account!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - If light is absorbed from the sides of a moving object is there a blueshift or a redshift? And if it goes to zero what about all the other angles of absorption from sides to front and back? Mitch Raemsch
From: kenseto on 23 Mar 2010 09:29 On Mar 22, 11:54 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 3/22/10 9:01 AM, kenseto wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 21, 2:31 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 3/21/10 9:54 AM, kenseto wrote: > > >>> On Mar 21, 10:46 am, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> On 3/21/10 9:06 AM, kenseto wrote: > > >>>>> Hey idiot....you are describing a doppler(sic) situation. It got nothing to > >>>>> do with the sychronization(sic) of two relatively moving clocks. > > >>>>> Ken Seto > > >>>> Why, pray tell, do you think one can ignore Doppler effects > >>>> when measuring signals from moving clocks? > > >>> Hey idiot because the rate of the GPS clock compared to the ground > >>> clock is not doppler effect dependent. > > >> Pulsars are affected by Doppler shift, as are interplanetary probes, > >> global navigation satellite systems (GNSS) and any clock in radial > >> motion with respect to an observer. Give us a break, Seto! > > > Hey wormy use your tiny brain once in a while. The rate of a clock > > moving wrt you does not change because it move toward you or away from > > you. According to SR the rate of a clock moving wrt you is 1/gamma at > > all time. > > > Ken Seto > > Doppler, Seto, Doppler shift... you have to take it into account! Hey idiot the rate of a clock moving wrt you is at 1/gamma at all times. The GPS clock send a signal to the ground clock that the passage of a ground clock second took place after the passage of (N +4.15) periods of Cs 133 radiation on the GPS clock. Doppler shift got nothing to do with this operation. Ken Seto - Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: kenseto on 23 Mar 2010 09:47 On Mar 22, 7:11 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> writes: > >On Mar 22, 12:46 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > >wrote: > > >> Just like the frequency of the horn on the train does not change > >> just because it is approaching the audience on the train platform. > >> The audience hears the desired tone, 440 Hz. Passengers on the train > >> hear a lower tone, the tone the horn was designed for. GPS receivers > >> receive the proper signal frequency on the ground. Anyone riding a GPS > >> satellite will detect a different frequency, the frequency preselected so > >> that the target audience, users near/on the ground, will receive the > >> proper frequency. > > >> There is *no* difference between the train example and the GPS system, > >> other than the source of the frequency shift (Doppler vs. SR/GR). Both > >> systems preadjusted the frequency so that the target audience will receive > >> the correct frequency. =A0That is all. > >No idiot the audience hear the desired tone only when the train is > >approaching them. They will hear different tone when the train is > >recding away from them. You really need to study SR befor eyou make a > >fool of yourself again. > > What difference does it make if the pitch changes as the train passes? > None. The concert is over by then, the train's part was played only when > it approaches. My point was that phyical effects change the frequency from > that emitted by the source, and this can be compensated for in advance. In that case are you saying that the GPS works only for a specific situation? Your naive understanding of the GPS is laughable. Let me expain to you once again: In SR the rate of a clock moving wrt you is 1/gamma at all time. The GPS clock sends sends a signal to the ground clock after the passage of N+4.15 periods of Cs 133 radiation....when the ground clock receives this signal it will know that the passage of N periods of Cs 133 radiation on its clock have taken place. > > If the tone change as the train passes the station really bothers you, > change things so that the train blows its horn as it moves away instead > of approaching, so the tone heard by the audience never changes, and the > pitch of the horn installed on the train must be of a higher frequency > than 440 Hz.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: kenseto on 23 Mar 2010 09:56
On Mar 22, 6:02 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > "kenseto" <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote in message > > news:7fa3e9f3-209d-434b-a1fa-3cd13bf7a810(a)q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > On Mar 22, 12:46 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > wrote: > >> kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> writes: > >> >On Mar 21, 11:31 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > >> >wrote: > >> >> So, idiot, why do you dismiss a perceived frequency shift due to the > >> >> Doppler Effect as just the Doppler Effect and ignore the composer's > >> >> effort > >> >> to compensate for the Doppler Effect as trivial, yet you come up with > >> >> kookiness such as "redefinition of the second" when the designers of > >> >> the GPS system had the foresight to compensate for the frequency shift > >> >> of special and general relativity? All the GPS designers did was the > >> >> very same thing the composer did, to compensate for a physical effect > >> >> that > >> >> changes the frequency due to ordinary physics. > >> >Hey idiot....the rate of a clock moving wrt you does not change > >> >because it move away from you or move toward you. Accoridng to SR its > >> >rate is 1/gamma at all times. > > >> Just like the frequency of the horn on the train does not change > >> just because it is approaching the audience on the train platform. > >> The audience hears the desired tone, 440 Hz. Passengers on the train > >> hear a lower tone, the tone the horn was designed for. GPS receivers > >> receive the proper signal frequency on the ground. Anyone riding a GPS > >> satellite will detect a different frequency, the frequency preselected so > >> that the target audience, users near/on the ground, will receive the > >> proper frequency. > > >> There is *no* difference between the train example and the GPS system, > >> other than the source of the frequency shift (Doppler vs. SR/GR). Both > >> systems preadjusted the frequency so that the target audience will > >> receive > >> the correct frequency. That is all. > > > No idiot the audience hear the desired tone only when the train is > > approaching them. They will hear different tone when the train is > > recding away from them. You really need to study SR befor eyou make a > > fool of yourself again. > > There was no claim above the SR predict tile dilation dependent on direction > of motion .. you replying as if it does just shows that you cannot > comprehend simple analogies. Hey idiot....no body is claiming that time dilation is frame dependent. The arguement is that Moroney claimed that Doppler shift is the same as the redefinition of the GPS second. It is not. Ken Seto > > The point is, if you know the particular situation (eg train coming toward > you, or GPS satellite) you can (pre-)adjust the frequency sent so that it > will be detected (heard) as the required frequency by the observer/listener. > That is what happens in GPS satellites.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - |