Simultaneity of Relativity
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From: mpc755 on 8 Oct 2009 16:57 On Oct 8, 4:50 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 8 oct, 16:40, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 8, 4:31 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 8 oct, 12:49, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and stationary > > > > relative to the train, this is what will occur in Einstein's train > > > > thought experiment: > > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk > > > > This is a very good piece of work of yours, that provides a very good > > > proof of Einstein's relativity of simultaneity. > > > You describe what happens in both the train and the embankment frames.. > > > > a) Considering the events as observed by M' on the train, the light > > > fronts coming from points A' and B' arrive to the location of M' > > > simultaneously, while clearly it is also seen that, as observed by M, > > > the light front coming from point A' gets to the location of M well > > > BEFORE arriving to the location of M', while the light front coming > > > from point B' gets to the location of M well AFTER passing through the > > > location of M'. Very well done!!! > > > > b) Now, you also nicely show the situation as seen from the point of > > > view of M. Considering the events as observed by M on the embankment, > > > the light fronts coming from points A and B arrive to the location of > > > M simultaneously, while clearly it is also seen that, as observed by > > > M', the light front coming from point A gets to the location of M' > > > well AFTER arriving to the location of M, while the light front coming > > > from point B gets to the location of M' well BEFORE passing through > > > the location of M. > > > > Once again, you have proved beyond any doubt the relativity of > > > simultaneity according to Einstein gedanken. Congratultions. > > > > Miguel Rios > > > What I am displaying is not Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity. > > > In Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity ALL of the light from the > > lightning strike at A/A' reaches M simultaneously and ALL of the light > > from the lightning strike A/A' reaches M' simultaneously, and ALL of > > the light from lightning strike at B/B' reaches M simultaneously, and > > ALL of the light from the lightning strike at B/B' reaches M' > > simultaneously. > > > This is NOT what I am showing. > > > But thanks for agreeing with Simultaneity of Relativity. > > No! you are as always ignorant of even what Einstein gedanken says, > so... > You are showing four (4) events or flashes instead of the two (2) > flashes that Einstein used. And, of course, the relativity of > simultaneity means that those two events while being simultaneous for > one of the observers (M for instance), will most definitely not be > simultaneous for the other observer M', and vice versa. > > This was already discussed some months ago, so you are clearly trying > to resurrect a dead cow here. > > Miguel Rios You do not understand Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity. In Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity the lightning strike at A/A' is a single event and all of the light from A/A' will reach M simultaneously. This is not what is occurring in Simultaneity of Relativity. In Simultaneity of Relativity, the light from the lightning strike at A' reaches M prior to the light from A reaching M.
From: PD on 8 Oct 2009 17:05 On Oct 8, 3:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 8, 3:39 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 8, 11:49 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and stationary > > > relative to the train, this is what will occur in Einstein's train > > > thought experiment: > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk > > > Cute. > > > Now, keep in mind that the gedanken is an explanatory tool to help > > understand what relativity says. It is in no way an experiment. Nor > > has there ever been an experiment done involving a train to test > > relativity's claims. > > > However, there HAVE been experiments done that are similar in concept > > to the train set-up, at least in terms of the underlying physics. > > > And what's interesting is that the experimental results are consistent > > with relativity and not with the scheme that you've drawn. Already. > > Yes, because the tests are performed within a single aether. So is your train picture. And the experimental results are not consistent with your movie.
From: paparios on 8 Oct 2009 17:06 On 8 oct, 16:57, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 8, 4:50 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On 8 oct, 16:40, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Oct 8, 4:31 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 8 oct, 12:49, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and stationary > > > > > relative to the train, this is what will occur in Einstein's train > > > > > thought experiment: > > > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk > > > > > This is a very good piece of work of yours, that provides a very good > > > > proof of Einstein's relativity of simultaneity. > > > > You describe what happens in both the train and the embankment frames. > > > > > a) Considering the events as observed by M' on the train, the light > > > > fronts coming from points A' and B' arrive to the location of M' > > > > simultaneously, while clearly it is also seen that, as observed by M, > > > > the light front coming from point A' gets to the location of M well > > > > BEFORE arriving to the location of M', while the light front coming > > > > from point B' gets to the location of M well AFTER passing through the > > > > location of M'. Very well done!!! > > > > > b) Now, you also nicely show the situation as seen from the point of > > > > view of M. Considering the events as observed by M on the embankment, > > > > the light fronts coming from points A and B arrive to the location of > > > > M simultaneously, while clearly it is also seen that, as observed by > > > > M', the light front coming from point A gets to the location of M' > > > > well AFTER arriving to the location of M, while the light front coming > > > > from point B gets to the location of M' well BEFORE passing through > > > > the location of M. > > > > > Once again, you have proved beyond any doubt the relativity of > > > > simultaneity according to Einstein gedanken. Congratultions. > > > > > Miguel Rios > > > > What I am displaying is not Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity. > > > > In Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity ALL of the light from the > > > lightning strike at A/A' reaches M simultaneously and ALL of the light > > > from the lightning strike A/A' reaches M' simultaneously, and ALL of > > > the light from lightning strike at B/B' reaches M simultaneously, and > > > ALL of the light from the lightning strike at B/B' reaches M' > > > simultaneously. > > > > This is NOT what I am showing. > > > > But thanks for agreeing with Simultaneity of Relativity. > > > No! you are as always ignorant of even what Einstein gedanken says, > > so... > > You are showing four (4) events or flashes instead of the two (2) > > flashes that Einstein used. And, of course, the relativity of > > simultaneity means that those two events while being simultaneous for > > one of the observers (M for instance), will most definitely not be > > simultaneous for the other observer M', and vice versa. > > > This was already discussed some months ago, so you are clearly trying > > to resurrect a dead cow here. > > > Miguel Rios > > You do not understand Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity. > > In Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity the lightning strike at A/A' > is a single event and all of the light from A/A' will reach M > simultaneously. > > This is not what is occurring in Simultaneity of Relativity. In > Simultaneity of Relativity, the light from the lightning strike at A' > reaches M prior to the light from A reaching M No it is you who, clearly, does not understand any physics. If you now are asserting that the strikes are simultaneous at points A and A', then your video is totally bogus since you are clearly showing two circles growing one from point A and the other from point A' and hence they are not moving at the same speed. Miguel Rios
From: PD on 8 Oct 2009 17:09 On Oct 8, 3:55 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 8, 4:47 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 8, 3:40 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Oct 8, 4:31 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 8 oct, 12:49, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and stationary > > > > > relative to the train, this is what will occur in Einstein's train > > > > > thought experiment: > > > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk > > > > > This is a very good piece of work of yours, that provides a very good > > > > proof of Einstein's relativity of simultaneity. > > > > You describe what happens in both the train and the embankment frames. > > > > > a) Considering the events as observed by M' on the train, the light > > > > fronts coming from points A' and B' arrive to the location of M' > > > > simultaneously, while clearly it is also seen that, as observed by M, > > > > the light front coming from point A' gets to the location of M well > > > > BEFORE arriving to the location of M', while the light front coming > > > > from point B' gets to the location of M well AFTER passing through the > > > > location of M'. Very well done!!! > > > > > b) Now, you also nicely show the situation as seen from the point of > > > > view of M. Considering the events as observed by M on the embankment, > > > > the light fronts coming from points A and B arrive to the location of > > > > M simultaneously, while clearly it is also seen that, as observed by > > > > M', the light front coming from point A gets to the location of M' > > > > well AFTER arriving to the location of M, while the light front coming > > > > from point B gets to the location of M' well BEFORE passing through > > > > the location of M. > > > > > Once again, you have proved beyond any doubt the relativity of > > > > simultaneity according to Einstein gedanken. Congratultions. > > > > > Miguel Rios > > > > What I am displaying is not Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity. > > > > In Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity ALL of the light from the > > > lightning strike at A/A' reaches M simultaneously and ALL of the light > > > from the lightning strike A/A' reaches M' simultaneously, and ALL of > > > the light from lightning strike at B/B' reaches M simultaneously, and > > > ALL of the light from the lightning strike at B/B' reaches M' > > > simultaneously. > > > No, that is NOT what Einstein's train gedanken says happens, at all. > > Good heavens. It appears you don't know what SR says. > > > Right on your YouTube video page you'll see a much better video that > > DOES say what Einstein's train gedanken says. You'll see it's much > > different than what you just wrote above. > > I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The only point I am > trying to make to the other poster is the light from A' does not reach > M prior to the light from A reaching M in Einstein's train thought > experiment. In Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity the lightning > strike at A/A' is a single event and ALL of the light from the > lightning strike at A/A' reaches M simultaneously. No sir. The lighting strikes at A/A' are two separate events. You have a mistaken idea of what "event" means in relativity. An event, as defined for this purpose, is something that happens at a particular place and a particular time, not just at a particular time. And since A and A' happen at different places, they are separate events. Secondly, the gedanken doesn't say that the light doesn't arrive at M simultaneously. It says that it doesn't arrive at M' simultaneously. It's apparent that you don't know what the train gedanken description is. Have you tried to read it? > > In Simultaneity of Relativity the light from A' reaches M prior to the > light from A reaching M. > > > > > > This is NOT what I am showing. > > > > But thanks for agreeing with Simultaneity of Relativity. > >
From: mpc755 on 8 Oct 2009 17:15
On Oct 8, 5:09 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 8, 3:55 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 8, 4:47 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Oct 8, 3:40 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 8, 4:31 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On 8 oct, 12:49, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and stationary > > > > > > relative to the train, this is what will occur in Einstein's train > > > > > > thought experiment: > > > > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk > > > > > > This is a very good piece of work of yours, that provides a very good > > > > > proof of Einstein's relativity of simultaneity. > > > > > You describe what happens in both the train and the embankment frames. > > > > > > a) Considering the events as observed by M' on the train, the light > > > > > fronts coming from points A' and B' arrive to the location of M' > > > > > simultaneously, while clearly it is also seen that, as observed by M, > > > > > the light front coming from point A' gets to the location of M well > > > > > BEFORE arriving to the location of M', while the light front coming > > > > > from point B' gets to the location of M well AFTER passing through the > > > > > location of M'. Very well done!!! > > > > > > b) Now, you also nicely show the situation as seen from the point of > > > > > view of M. Considering the events as observed by M on the embankment, > > > > > the light fronts coming from points A and B arrive to the location of > > > > > M simultaneously, while clearly it is also seen that, as observed by > > > > > M', the light front coming from point A gets to the location of M' > > > > > well AFTER arriving to the location of M, while the light front coming > > > > > from point B gets to the location of M' well BEFORE passing through > > > > > the location of M. > > > > > > Once again, you have proved beyond any doubt the relativity of > > > > > simultaneity according to Einstein gedanken. Congratultions. > > > > > > Miguel Rios > > > > > What I am displaying is not Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity. > > > > > In Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity ALL of the light from the > > > > lightning strike at A/A' reaches M simultaneously and ALL of the light > > > > from the lightning strike A/A' reaches M' simultaneously, and ALL of > > > > the light from lightning strike at B/B' reaches M simultaneously, and > > > > ALL of the light from the lightning strike at B/B' reaches M' > > > > simultaneously. > > > > No, that is NOT what Einstein's train gedanken says happens, at all. > > > Good heavens. It appears you don't know what SR says. > > > > Right on your YouTube video page you'll see a much better video that > > > DOES say what Einstein's train gedanken says. You'll see it's much > > > different than what you just wrote above. > > > I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The only point I am > > trying to make to the other poster is the light from A' does not reach > > M prior to the light from A reaching M in Einstein's train thought > > experiment. In Einstein's Relativity of Simultaneity the lightning > > strike at A/A' is a single event and ALL of the light from the > > lightning strike at A/A' reaches M simultaneously. > > No sir. The lighting strikes at A/A' are two separate events. You have > a mistaken idea of what "event" means in relativity. An event, as > defined for this purpose, is something that happens at a particular > place and a particular time, not just at a particular time. And since > A and A' happen at different places, they are separate events. > > Secondly, the gedanken doesn't say that the light doesn't arrive at M > simultaneously. It says that it doesn't arrive at M' simultaneously. > It's apparent that you don't know what the train gedanken description > is. Have you tried to read it? > The light from A/A' reaches M simultaneously in Einstein's Train Thought Experiment. If you do not understand this point in Einstein's Train Thought Experiment when discussing Relativity of Simultaneity, you are clueless. > > > > In Simultaneity of Relativity the light from A' reaches M prior to the > > light from A reaching M. > > > > > This is NOT what I am showing. > > > > > But thanks for agreeing with Simultaneity of Relativity. > > |