Smartmeter: Anyone knows how to get detailed info on them?
in [Design]
|
From: D Yuniskis on 28 Apr 2010 13:30 Hi Charlie, Charlie E. wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 06:52:23 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> sj wrote: >>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:56:34 +1000, "David L. Jones" <altzone(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I wonder what happens if the new gadget completely fails for, err, some >>>> mysterious reason... Do you get your electrons for free until they can >>>> replace it? >>> >>> From bits of information I have heard in the media about California PG&E >>> complaints, some of the meters have failed to record and the PG&E >>> solution is to estimate the bill from previous history. I don't have any >>> confirmation link to cite. >> >> But there were people who claimed the bill was 3x the previous year's or >> more. That can't be an estimate. Also, on the bill it should clearly say >> "estimated". > > Even with mechanical meters they can get away with 'estimating' your > usage! > > Back in Irvine, it apparently was the practice to actually read the > meters only every other month. We could tell, because every other > month we would get hit by large 'overuse' charges, as they 'estimated' > that we would have used a lot more electricity, and gone into the high > tariff rates, and then the next month we would be barely out of > baseline. A couple of times I got the bill, looked at what they said > the meter read, went out and LOOKED at my meter, and realized that I > wasn't there yet a week after they had supposedly read the meter. > > And no, they never put on there 'ESTIMATED'... In every service area that I've lived, the bill announced "estimate" if it indeed was an estimate. And, in every such area, the utility couldn't *regularly* resort to estimates as it *is* unfair to the consumer (since most utilities don't have flat tariffs) Note there is a subtle but hugely significant difference, here: If a meter reader couldn't read your (mechanical) meter (because he was lazy, work stoppage, bad weather, etc.) the utility *could* estimate and then, in the *next* billing cycle, an actual reading would come up with a correction. Granted, you couldn't tell how far off the estimate was FOR SURE, *but*, at the end of that billing period, you once again have a record of the *total* power consumed in the two periods. This isn't true of an estimate brought about by a meter *failure*.
From: D Yuniskis on 28 Apr 2010 13:35 Joerg wrote: > Robert Baer wrote: >> Joerg wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> Many of you will soon be in the same boat. Our utility has informed >>> us that we and the whole town will get the dreaded smartmeters. >>> Whether we want that or not. Obviously they have serious issues and >>> as usual the utility is stone-walling: >>> >>> http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_14963541 >>> >>> Having seen all the grief caused by, ahem, sub-optimal electronics >>> design in cars I am not all that surprised. Does anyone know where to >>> find some serious data on this problem? Or maybe even schematics & >>> board layouts of those things? >>> >>> BTW, we used to have a meter with LCD readout and all until years >>> ago. It eventually failed, maybe because it gets hit by the full >>> morning sun. The utility replaced it with, tada, a classic mechanical >>> meter. Probably because those simply work ... >>> >> Q concerning those old meters; they have been around for like ages. >> Are they so reliable that they never show up in surplus shops or >> does Piggie sledgehammer them? > > I've never heard of one breaking. Only electronic ones that broke. Also, > they'd have to somehow leak out of the utility's materials management > system to end up in surplus stores. <grin> They can be (ahem) "acquired". I was going to change the ratio on one (to make it more interesting) and build a *lamp* out of it but was vetoed ("You *don't* think you're going to put that UGLY thing in the living room, do you??")
From: Jim Thompson on 28 Apr 2010 13:39 On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 10:22:35 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul(a)hovnanian.com> wrote: >Tim Wescott wrote: > >> Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:30:29 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." >>> <Paul(a)Hovnanian.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>> Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote: >>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many of you will soon be in the same boat. Our utility has informed >>>>>>> us that we and the whole town will get the dreaded smartmeters. >>>>>>> Whether we want that or not. Obviously they have serious issues and >>>>>>> as usual the utility is stone-walling: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_14963541 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Having seen all the grief caused by, ahem, sub-optimal electronics >>>>>>> design in cars I am not all that surprised. Does anyone know where to >>>>>>> find some serious data on this problem? Or maybe even schematics & >>>>>>> board layouts of those things? >>>>>> Find out which makes and models they're using and post that info here >>>>>> and maybe on alt.engineering.electrical (and maybe >>>>>> misc.industry.utilities.electric if that group hasn't died of neglect >>>>>> yet). >>>>>> >>>>> I'll have to wait until they reach our house. Others have them already >>>>> and they look similar to this one: >>>>> >>>>> http://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/SmartMeter.jpg >>>> I can make out "Landis + Gyr" but no model numbers. A search of >>>> "SmartMeter" on their site only returns articles containing the generic >>>> phrase rather than a particular product line. I'd guess that >>>> "SmartMeter" is probably a PG&E "brand". >>>> >>>> The unit appears to be a fully electronic unit (no induction disk >>>> pickup). These measure the I and V and calculate the power numerically. >>>> Fancy things can be done with such meters, such as sampling fast enough >>>> to measure and characterize motor starting. Which can allow them to >>>> detect the number of times your fridge or a/c unit come on each day. >>>> >>>> But if the processor goes brain dead, there goes the accumulated energy >>>> data. >>>> >>> >>> I would expect data storage in NVRAM... don't you think? Otherwise >>> the exposure to suits from angry customers would be overwhelming. >> >> I can hear Ernestine now: "you can't talk to me that way, sir, I am with >> the _Power_ company!!" Tikki tikki tap (lights go out). > >I used to work for the power company. And that's exactly how they think. > >Due to excessive customer complaints to the UTC about power co employees >pissy attitudes, our management decided to have everyone take a course on >how to deal effectively with customers. Problem is, it was just designed to >calm people down, defuse the current situation and get them out of the >office. I pointed out (to no avail) that these people were still customers >and, even though we'd soothed them for the moment, the next time they >looked at their bill, they'd be even more pissed once the realized that >they just keep getting the bum's rush. > >At the end of the course, when everyone was presented with their 'diploma' >by the instructor, on my way back to my seat, I announced to my >classmates, "Great! I've got my black belt in dealing with customers!" At GenRad, I was required to take a course in sexual harassment. When I opined that I'd never been sexually harassed and would like to experience some... the instructor was not amused, particularly when, at each new type, I'd mutter plaintively, "Please!" :-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy
From: Joel Koltner on 28 Apr 2010 14:10 "D Yuniskis" <not.going.to.be(a)seen.com> wrote in message news:hr9rai$8rf$2(a)speranza.aioe.org... > <grin> They can be (ahem) "acquired". I was going to change the > ratio on one (to make it more interesting) and build a *lamp* > out of it but was vetoed ("You *don't* think you're going to put > that UGLY thing in the living room, do you??") I think they make decent-looking lamps -- I've seen them offered commercially as such: http://www.etgiftstore.com/items/all-products/gifts-over~100/westinghouse-meter-lamp-detail.htm
From: D Yuniskis on 28 Apr 2010 14:29
Hi Joel, Joel Koltner wrote: > "D Yuniskis" <not.going.to.be(a)seen.com> wrote in message > news:hr9rai$8rf$2(a)speranza.aioe.org... >> <grin> They can be (ahem) "acquired". I was going to change the >> ratio on one (to make it more interesting) and build a *lamp* >> out of it but was vetoed ("You *don't* think you're going to put >> that UGLY thing in the living room, do you??") > > I think they make decent-looking lamps -- I've seen them offered > commercially as such: > http://www.etgiftstore.com/items/all-products/gifts-over~100/westinghouse-meter-lamp-detail.htm Yes, but I was using the solid state meter prototype ("patent proof") so it wasn't nearly as "pretty" :> (gears replaced by semiconductors) |