Solar cheaper than nuclear
in [Design]
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From: untergangsprophet on 11 Aug 2010 16:44 On 11 Aug., 14:33, "keith...(a)gmail.com" <keith...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Are you suggesting that solar panel factories are really in the dummy > manufacturing business? Hmm, I think you're onto something here. In Spain some were running diesel-generators 24/7 to generate "more" solar power and cash the government funding. And maybe neighbours are exchanging grid power turning it into solar power. Solar Energy saves our world.
From: Bill Sloman on 11 Aug 2010 19:18 On Aug 12, 12:38 am, Jim Yanik <jya...(a)abuse.gov> wrote: > Koning Betweter <Kon...(a)Stumper.nl> wrote in news:2010081115332791513- > Koning(a)Stumpernl: > > > > > On 2010-08-10 15:15:53 +0200, Sylvia Else said: > > >> On 10/08/2010 9:59 AM, Koning Betweter wrote: > >>> solar systems make consumers independent when they generate > >>> their own energy. > > >> Let's see them disconnect themselves from the grid, and then we'll see > >> how independent they are. > > >> Sylvia. > > > The grid in my country is getting more expensive by time. Every year I > > have used the same amound of energy, but the prices is about 100,00 > > more. > > With an of-grid installation, it's only a matter of time to be cheaper > > as the energycompany. > > > It doesn't matter how you generate your energy, it's just cheaper to > > use the energy around us like sun, wind or water. > > evidently NOT,because few people are doing it. > Particularly with their own money. > > > You just need the space to build your plant and the money to invest. > > > If you're living in a big building with many other families, you > > probably have no chance to generate your own energy, except methangas. > > form a co-op. > If its so beneficial,then everyone in the building would join. Human nature doesn't work that way. > BTW,trying to generate practical,useful quantities of methane gas in a > residential building might be a hazard to other occupants.(explosions) > It might even be a nuisance.(odors) It is difficult to get methane to burn, let alone explode. Methane itself is odourless, but some of the waste that can be fermented to produce methane is smelly. Any system that collected methane safely isn't going to let the malodourous contaminants leak out. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Bill Sloman on 11 Aug 2010 19:35 On Aug 12, 1:08 am, John Larkin <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 06:54:59 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman <snip> > >> >John Larkin wants to believe that we can ignore this and he is > >> >prepared to write off the whole scientific establishment because he > >> >finds their expert opinion unattractive. This is genuinely crazy. > > >> I believe we WILL ignore it. > > >Perhaps. Until the consequent climate excursions get too expensive. > >The Russians aren't enjoying their unusually hot summer and the wide- > >spread bush-fires that have come with it, but this might still just be > >a particularly improbable deviation from the historical norm rather > >than a tolerably likely deviation in the series of progressively > >warmer summers that the current global warming > >has already delivered - a warming of 0.74 ± 0.18 °C (1.33 ± 0.32 °F) > >during the 20th century. > > >You burn your carbon and they take their chances. > > Thanks, I will. The Audi is a blast to drive on the hills here. Fine. You've got grand-children, and you will do your little bit to make their lives more difficult. I've got grand-nieces and - nephews, and your self-satisfied ignorance will make their lives more difficult to pretty much the same extent - California and Australia are both running out of fresh water already, and the immediately predictable consequences of global warming don't include increased rainfall in either area. The incipient mechanical collapse of the Greenland ice-cap - as reported in today's paper by a Professor Richard Alley from Pennsylvania State University who has just told the US House of Representatives the the Greenland ice-cap may go unstable in the next decade - may give us both more salt water than we really want. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: John Larkin on 11 Aug 2010 21:07 On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:35:41 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman <bill.sloman(a)ieee.org> wrote: >On Aug 12, 1:08�am, John Larkin ><jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 06:54:59 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman > ><snip> > >> >> >John Larkin wants to believe that we can ignore this and he is >> >> >prepared to write off the whole scientific establishment because he >> >> >finds their expert opinion unattractive. �This is genuinely crazy. >> >> >> I believe we WILL ignore it. >> >> >Perhaps. Until the consequent climate excursions get too expensive. >> >The Russians aren't enjoying their unusually hot summer and the wide- >> >spread bush-fires that have come with it, but this might still just be >> >a particularly improbable deviation from the historical norm rather >> >than a tolerably likely deviation in the series of progressively >> >warmer summers that the current global warming >> >has already delivered - a warming of 0.74 � 0.18 �C (1.33 � 0.32 �F) >> >during the 20th century. >> >> >You burn your carbon and they take their chances. >> >> Thanks, I will. The Audi is a blast to drive on the hills here. > >Fine. You've got grand-children, and you will do your little bit to >make their lives more difficult. I've got grand-nieces and - nephews, >and your self-satisfied ignorance will make their lives more difficult >to pretty much the same extent - California and Australia are both >running out of fresh water already, and the immediately predictable >consequences of global warming don't include increased rainfall in >either area. Such predictions are no better than chance. California is running out of water mostly because we live in a desert where people insist on growing huge plots of stuff like rice and cotton. ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/163828.pdf We still had 10 feet of snow piled up against the side of our cabin on July 4th. John
From: Koning Betweter on 11 Aug 2010 21:28
On 2010-08-11 15:47:41 +0200, Sylvia Else said: > On 11/08/2010 11:33 PM, Koning Betweter wrote: >> On 2010-08-10 15:15:53 +0200, Sylvia Else said: >> >>> On 10/08/2010 9:59 AM, Koning Betweter wrote: >>>> solar systems make consumers independent when they generate >>>> their own energy. >>> >>> Let's see them disconnect themselves from the grid, and then we'll see >>> how independent they are. >>> >>> Sylvia. >> >> The grid in my country is getting more expensive by time. Every year I >> have used the same amound of energy, but the prices is about € 100,00 more. >> With an of-grid installation, it's only a matter of time to be cheaper >> as the energycompany. > > Really disconnnecting yourself from the grid implies having some other > method of providing power when your solar panels won't. Energy storage > is a problem. Batteries are expensive, and have a short life. And even > if you've installed batteries to handle the nightly loss of solar > power, you still need something else to cope with cloudy days. Your > ultimate backstop is presumably a fossil fueled generator, even if you > hope not to use it much. > > All of this costs money. Getting a really independent system down > anywhere near the cost of grid power is a tall order. > > I suppose some people might be happy to use power when it's available, > and do without when it's not, but few would willing to live that way. > >> >> It doesn't matter how you generate your energy, it's just cheaper to use >> the energy around us like sun, wind or water. >> You just need the space to build your plant and the money to invest. > > Money invested has a cost. At its simplest the cost is the interest > forgone - instead of buying the gear to produce your energy, you could > have put the money in the bank, earned interest on it, and used the > interest to buy energ from the grid instead. > > Even if you do decide to buy the plant, it won't last forever > (batteries particularly), so you need to allow for future replacement. > It's not a one-off investment. > > Sylvia. I can't deny, using energy cost money. Batteries are painfull for the wallet. A pure sine-wave converter is also expensive. I hope to find a place somewhere once, without neighbours and surrounded with a lot of nature. Connecting to the grid will be very expensive. I am finding ways to do without the grid. There are a lot ways to reduce the use of electricity. -- Ik praat liever tegen een domoor, dan tegen dovemansoren. |