Prev: Vulcan .Net and VO 2.8 - yeah right....
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From: Rene J. Pajaron on 26 Sep 2006 02:47
Brian,

I am doing right with VO 2.7 with last public build release ages ago.
My investment with CM200/RP3 is timely because it gives me a stable
reporting engine my clients deserved.

Ready to invest on 2.8. However, my planned migration to .Net requires
me a Vulcan, that VOPS subscription is better alternative becaue it
give me both product and one-year technical support.

Am I right? Getting a VOPS give me VO2.8 + Vulcan +tech-support for 12
months? Is it cost less when buying VO2.8 and Vulcan separately
without VOPS?

I have C# and learning well, as well as ASP.net.

My full support!!!! With all my staff and partners.

Rene

Ayon kay Brian:
> Carlos,
>
> While it's disappointing to see these kind of nasty personal posts let me
> assure you that it is going to take more than a "Political Spin Doctor", and
> a
> few unhappy customers who say they have "moved on" (but have plenty of time
> to make nasty posts) to stop GrafX from continuing what we have been doing
> every day for the last four years of our lives; improving Visual Objects &
> continuing the Visual Objects language with Vulcan.NET
>
> We've learned a long time ago, that it would be impossible to make everyone
> happy. What we try to do is, keep focused on our real work, which is, to
> continue development of both Visual Objects and Vulcan.NET.
>
> Those persons who are members of VOPS know first hand the kind of work we
> are doing because the have the direct result of the work we do on their
> machines _today_. The other's just speculate. We make NO apologies for the
> cost of VOPS, it's less money per month then you spend on electricity or
> gasoline for your car.
> If your serious professional, you should expect to pay for your tools.
>
> I'm certain that each member of the development team is MORE than qualified
> to work on any project they want, yet they continue to work on Visual
> Objects, and Vulcan.NET. in spite of this incessant speculative non-sense.
> It's disappointing and while it makes for a distraction, we have removed the
> kind of distraction from our VOPS forums, so we can get some software
> development accomplished.
>
> No one wants to visit this public forum and read this drivel.
>
> One side goes at the other with a bunch of speculative political propaganda
> non-sense. The other side reacts because they know better and although they
> are under NDA, they have positive things to say because they have seen it
> with their own eyes and have it on their own machines.
>
> That's how I see it.
>
> I'm out of here, I've got real work to do which includes "ignoring" the spin
> doctors previous, latest or future posts.
>
> All the best,
>
> Brian
> http://www.grafxsoft.com

From: Dave Francis on 26 Sep 2006 03:24
Rene,

Your rational logic is a breath of fresh air in here. VOPS is a business
decision that all pro VOers have to make. Hysteria plays no part in it.

Dave Francis


"Rene J. Pajaron" <rjpajaron(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159253243.893227.174870(a)h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Brian,
>
> I am doing right with VO 2.7 with last public build release ages ago.
> My investment with CM200/RP3 is timely because it gives me a stable
> reporting engine my clients deserved.
>
> Ready to invest on 2.8. However, my planned migration to .Net requires
> me a Vulcan, that VOPS subscription is better alternative becaue it
> give me both product and one-year technical support.
>
> Am I right? Getting a VOPS give me VO2.8 + Vulcan +tech-support for 12
> months? Is it cost less when buying VO2.8 and Vulcan separately
> without VOPS?
>
> I have C# and learning well, as well as ASP.net.
>
> My full support!!!! With all my staff and partners.
>
> Rene
>
> Ayon kay Brian:
>> Carlos,
>>
>> While it's disappointing to see these kind of nasty personal posts let me
>> assure you that it is going to take more than a "Political Spin Doctor",
>> and
>> a
>> few unhappy customers who say they have "moved on" (but have plenty of
>> time
>> to make nasty posts) to stop GrafX from continuing what we have been
>> doing
>> every day for the last four years of our lives; improving Visual Objects
>> &
>> continuing the Visual Objects language with Vulcan.NET
>>
>> We've learned a long time ago, that it would be impossible to make
>> everyone
>> happy. What we try to do is, keep focused on our real work, which is, to
>> continue development of both Visual Objects and Vulcan.NET.
>>
>> Those persons who are members of VOPS know first hand the kind of work we
>> are doing because the have the direct result of the work we do on their
>> machines _today_. The other's just speculate. We make NO apologies for
>> the
>> cost of VOPS, it's less money per month then you spend on electricity or
>> gasoline for your car.
>> If your serious professional, you should expect to pay for your tools.
>>
>> I'm certain that each member of the development team is MORE than
>> qualified
>> to work on any project they want, yet they continue to work on Visual
>> Objects, and Vulcan.NET. in spite of this incessant speculative
>> non-sense.
>> It's disappointing and while it makes for a distraction, we have removed
>> the
>> kind of distraction from our VOPS forums, so we can get some software
>> development accomplished.
>>
>> No one wants to visit this public forum and read this drivel.
>>
>> One side goes at the other with a bunch of speculative political
>> propaganda
>> non-sense. The other side reacts because they know better and although
>> they
>> are under NDA, they have positive things to say because they have seen it
>> with their own eyes and have it on their own machines.
>>
>> That's how I see it.
>>
>> I'm out of here, I've got real work to do which includes "ignoring" the
>> spin
>> doctors previous, latest or future posts.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Brian
>> http://www.grafxsoft.com
>


From: Carlos Vazquez on 26 Sep 2006 03:55
Geoff,

Geoff Schaller wrote:

> In all seriousness I also see a request for 'pre-orders' as negative.

IIRC this is not the first time (nor the second, not the third) that preorders are requested. And though I took it as a curious method of selling software (the first time I knew about them) I can't see why are they negative now.

> It shows a serious lack of confidence in the marketplace and a distrust for VO loyalty.

The same comment would apply for every previous request (that anybody didn't criticize then).

> It is also double-speak for stalling - a way of saying nothing in order to make to appear like something.

Google the NG and compare previous timeframes. This is rubbish. Even more: given that you seem to have recent info from within VOPS, then your comment is clearly malicious.

> A feature list of bug fix list would have been better. What is on the website is pathetic so something concrete would at least have been positive.

At least is something you and others are constantly requesting: information. When some information is given, then it is criticized. Is it my biased mind or there is nothing that would satisfy you? I'm sure that if an extremely detailed list of bug fixes were given, some would say: "now it is too late", or something similar...

--
Carlos Vazquez
cva(a)NOSPAMtelefonica.net
From: Rene J. Pajaron on 26 Sep 2006 04:53
Dave,

VOPS is plainly a business decision that I bear to make. No
bullshits!!! I want to make VO2.8 to succeed; and move to .Net without
any headache (perhaps manageable migraine).

I am waiting from grafx to answer my query if it is lot cheaper to
subsribe to VOPS (which I assume will include upgrade to VO2.8 from 2.7
+Vulcan +12 months Tech-support). Than having to upgrade with 2.8, then
later on noise filter working on: Vulcan is insanely working to all
insane VOers.. Brainwashed to max praising grafx for the success... or
hang them all....

Those who are perfect: on schedule all the time, no bugs, no sins,
cast stone to grafx. I dont. I am like grafx. I am late: it is
better to have stable code that is late than having a lots of bug
calls..... It reminds me of Windows ME, hehehhe

I am insanely happy with VO, hehehhe


Rene

Ayon kay Dave Francis:
> Rene,
>
> Your rational logic is a breath of fresh air in here. VOPS is a business
> decision that all pro VOers have to make. Hysteria plays no part in it.
>
> Dave Francis
>
>
> "Rene J. Pajaron" <rjpajaron(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1159253243.893227.174870(a)h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Brian,
> >
> > I am doing right with VO 2.7 with last public build release ages ago.
> > My investment with CM200/RP3 is timely because it gives me a stable
> > reporting engine my clients deserved.
> >
> > Ready to invest on 2.8. However, my planned migration to .Net requires
> > me a Vulcan, that VOPS subscription is better alternative becaue it
> > give me both product and one-year technical support.
> >
> > Am I right? Getting a VOPS give me VO2.8 + Vulcan +tech-support for 12
> > months? Is it cost less when buying VO2.8 and Vulcan separately
> > without VOPS?
> >
> > I have C# and learning well, as well as ASP.net.
> >
> > My full support!!!! With all my staff and partners.
> >
> > Rene
> >
> > Ayon kay Brian:
> >> Carlos,
> >>
> >> While it's disappointing to see these kind of nasty personal posts let me
> >> assure you that it is going to take more than a "Political Spin Doctor",
> >> and
> >> a
> >> few unhappy customers who say they have "moved on" (but have plenty of
> >> time
> >> to make nasty posts) to stop GrafX from continuing what we have been
> >> doing
> >> every day for the last four years of our lives; improving Visual Objects
> >> &
> >> continuing the Visual Objects language with Vulcan.NET
> >>
> >> We've learned a long time ago, that it would be impossible to make
> >> everyone
> >> happy. What we try to do is, keep focused on our real work, which is, to
> >> continue development of both Visual Objects and Vulcan.NET.
> >>
> >> Those persons who are members of VOPS know first hand the kind of work we
> >> are doing because the have the direct result of the work we do on their
> >> machines _today_. The other's just speculate. We make NO apologies for
> >> the
> >> cost of VOPS, it's less money per month then you spend on electricity or
> >> gasoline for your car.
> >> If your serious professional, you should expect to pay for your tools.
> >>
> >> I'm certain that each member of the development team is MORE than
> >> qualified
> >> to work on any project they want, yet they continue to work on Visual
> >> Objects, and Vulcan.NET. in spite of this incessant speculative
> >> non-sense.
> >> It's disappointing and while it makes for a distraction, we have removed
> >> the
> >> kind of distraction from our VOPS forums, so we can get some software
> >> development accomplished.
> >>
> >> No one wants to visit this public forum and read this drivel.
> >>
> >> One side goes at the other with a bunch of speculative political
> >> propaganda
> >> non-sense. The other side reacts because they know better and although
> >> they
> >> are under NDA, they have positive things to say because they have seen it
> >> with their own eyes and have it on their own machines.
> >>
> >> That's how I see it.
> >>
> >> I'm out of here, I've got real work to do which includes "ignoring" the
> >> spin
> >> doctors previous, latest or future posts.
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >>
> >> Brian
> >> http://www.grafxsoft.com
> >

From: Geoff Schaller on 26 Sep 2006 05:16
Carlos,

> IIRC this is not the first time (nor the second, not the third) that preorders are requested. And though I took it as a curious method of selling software (the first time I knew about them) I can't see why are they negative now.

It is negative in that it appears to present a lack of confidence in the
market. There is simply no need for pre-orders unless you are nervous
about the potential response. There is no more or less work than if you
said... "I am taking orders today". How would you go about getting
pre-orders for your software? What sort of signal would it send?

> Google the NG and compare previous timeframes. This is rubbish. Even more: given that you seem to have recent info from within VOPS, then your comment is clearly malicious.

Malicious? Malicious implies punitive intent. I have none but my
statement is accurate. And I also voiced my concern the last time
pre-orders were raised. There was no need then and there is no need now.

> At least is something you and others are constantly requesting: information. When some information is given, then it is criticized. Is it my biased mind or there is nothing that would satisfy you? I'm sure that

But there is no information. Where is it? Promises of something soon.
Mentions that things were said somewhere else. Things shown to people
who have signed NDAs to prevent them from commenting. Come on Carlos,
how much real info is that?

>if an extremely detailed list of bug fixes were given, some would say: "now it is too late", or something similar...

So you are just a cynic after all. And here's me thinking you were
trying to start a reasoned discussion. Sorry.

Geoff


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