Stuff Some Air Jacks Into The Pipe
in [Physics]
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From: Giga2 on 18 Jun 2010 05:31 On 17 June, 19:21, Michael Coburn <mik...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 07:33:08 -0700, Uncle Al wrote: > > Bret Cahill wrote: > > >>http://www.asesystems.com/pneumatic-jacks.shtml?gclid=CLO- > > zdGRpqICFRk7gwodFnMjRg > > > > > > >> These rubberized Kevlar bags are small uninflated and can be packed > >> into a canister that protects the fabric from the ragged pipe entrance.. > > [snipc rap] > > > Hey stooopid, > > > 1) Halliburton cemented the wellhead with pigeon snot. If the > > blowout is capped, equilibrium pressure will go beyond 15,000 psig and > > blow the hardware like a champagne cork. > > > 2) The blowout is not central core, it is around the periphery of > > the drill string. Ya gotta plug the annulus, jackjass. BP managers > > ordered Trasocean engineers to omit placing centering rings to save time > > and money. Management is perfect in every way - perfect FUBAR, like > > you. > > > 3) "Inflate" Ha ha ha. Local sea floor pressure is ~2300 psia. > > Blowout equilibrium pressure is ~15,000 psig. /_\E = /_\(PV), 101.325 > > J/liter-atm. Yer talkin' a 20,000 psi gas compressor. Hey stooopid, > > how does gas act at 20,000 psi? Critical pressure for nitrogen is 500 > > psi. > > > Wanna plug the BP blowout? Put a refrigeration collar around the BOP > > (ammonia or sulfur dioxide mechanical refrigerant cycle) and > > progressively freeze the oil, inner wall to pipe center. Reversible at > > will. Thermally insulate the other side with benthic syntactic foam. > > Crystallized paraffins have been plugging oil wells nearly since Edwin > > L. Drake in 1859. > > > idiot > > As I have already _GUESSED_ (and for me that is all I can do), the > problem cannot be resolved by "capping" the pipe off in some way because > the pressure will blow the piping below the sea floor and the oil will > come out anyway. There are probably a zillion ways to "cap" the well and > no one is attempting it any more. All that mud stuff was for show. > Something to keep government and the public entertained. > > If this guess is correct then the only way to manage the problem is by > recovering the oil as it comes out of the pipe or as it seeps out from > around the damaged near surface. The dispersant was used to HIDE the oil > so that BP could limit its liabilities. Oil on the surface can be > skimmed, transported, and refined. This whole mess is an example of why > extraction of natural resources cannot be safely managed by profit driven > organizations. The incentives are totally wrong. > > So here we are: If and when "relief" wells can be drilled to intercept > the oil before it reaches the damaged (or weak) upper piping of the well, > then the flow of oil can be stopped. I am unclear as to how that will > work but whether the "relief" wells drop the pressure enough to allow a > cap that does not rupture the top portions of the well as it sits, or > whatever the relief wells are used to plug the pipe at a deeper point > where the surrounding rock is more supportive is somewhat irrelevant. > The objective seems to be to reduce the pressure at the top of the > current well and go from there. What I am not understanding at this > point is why the relief wells need to be so deep. (so deep is implied by > the time to drill them). If four or five new pipes are added a few > hundred feet below the top and the oil flows into tankers then this would > dramatically reduce the pressure and allow the damaged well to be sealed. > > It may be that BP has poked a hole in a reservoir of such pressure that > all the blowout prevention and cement would not have mattered. > > -- > "Senate rules don't trump the Constitution" --http://GreaterVoice.org/60 And not forgeting 11 employees were killed which is an even greater disaster.
From: John Polasek on 18 Jun 2010 14:33 On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:43:14 +0100, "Androcles" <Headmaster(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > >"Michael Coburn" <mikcob(a)verizon.net> wrote in message >news:hve67m3299j(a)news3.newsguy.com... > >| I am not here to make friends. I am here to discuss the issue. There is >| a reservoir of oil and gas at the BOTTOM of a long length of pipe that >| leads to the TOP of the well. That entire pipe is a "choke point" given >| a constant pressure from below then the flow through the pipe is >| determined by the size of the pipe. The pressure in the pipe diminishes >| somewhat at the top of the pipe in relation to what it was at the bottom, >| but that is not of importance here. The pressure _PAST_ the top of the >| pie is significantly less than the pressure in the @#$%& pipe because >| there is no "choke" on the flow. >| > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/BOP.JPG > >The gaskets have failed. There is still some restriction in the BOP or >the lower gasket would not show a plume. Possibly one or more of the six jacks that were to have crushed the pipe actually did so, (instead of all of them failing), forcing a rupture underneath it. >The BOP is rated a 15,000 psi. The water pressure is 5000 ft head, >30 ft head of water = 1 bar = 15 psi. 5000 ft head = 167 bar. >167 * 15 psi = 15,000 psi. Too much arithmetic! 5000 feet times .5 psi per foot equals 2500 psi. Also167 * 15 psi = 2505 psi not 15,000. John Polasek
From: Michael Coburn on 18 Jun 2010 14:45 On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 20:03:23 -0700, Bret Cahill wrote: > On Jun 17, 5:49 pm, Michael Coburn <mik...(a)verizon.net> wrote: >> On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:48:54 -0700, Bret Cahill wrote: >> >> [quoted text muted] >> >> > That's because there is a restriction up stream limiting flow, the ~ >> > 1" piping from the well or city water main. >> >> Yup. >> >> > If you are downstream of Lake Mead at the foot of Hoover Dam you >> > could open up thousands of 3/4" lines to the turbine inlets and never >> > reduce the pressure on any of the lines. >> >> But there is a 3 mile pipe from the reservoir to the well head. >> >> > The real question is the size of the reservoir and BP, at least back >> > in April, was claiming that was their top corp. secret. >> >> > The investigation committee has power of subpoena. They need to get >> > what ever information BP has. >> >> > When it comes to vital geo resources everything should be public >> > anyway. >> >> > Bret Cahill >> >> It ain't like your lake Mead deal at all. > > It's hard to say w/o more information. > > Most wells are in porous rock which restricts flow but how is this good > news? > > They cannot splice into the old pipe so the only thing they can do is to > drill down to the same area as the old one and start pumping. > > If they luck out and manage to lower the pressure drop by a factor of 3 > they only cut the flow rate in the old pipe by half. > > The pressure drop due to friction over 3 miles at the recent estimates > of flow rate would be less than 2 psi. 20" pipe at 1 ft/sec ignore > viscosity and pipe roughness: > > http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_pipe_friction.cfm#calc > > If you cut that in half the pressure drop is about 0.5 psi. > > The pipe itself is the reservoir. NO. The pipe is a choke. If you make the pipe smaller the flow decreases even as the pressure remains constant. HOWEVER, if you expand the pipe at the top and do not do anything to restrict the flow then the pressure at the LARGER top of the pipe will be less than the pressure at the bottom of the pipe. That is what happens when you drill 4 relief wells (install 4 additional pipes) near the top of the current well/ pipe. You provide a place for the oil to go OTHER THAN through the current well head. Relieving that pressure allows you to plug the current head without blowing up the rest of the piping. -- "Senate rules don't trump the Constitution" -- http://GreaterVoice.org/60
From: Androcles on 18 Jun 2010 14:57 "John Polasek" <jpolasek(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:g3en16tt95b5tucn5ulo76989v1s8f8bns(a)4ax.com... | On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:43:14 +0100, "Androcles" | <Headmaster(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: | | > | >"Michael Coburn" <mikcob(a)verizon.net> wrote in message | >news:hve67m3299j(a)news3.newsguy.com... | > | >| I am not here to make friends. I am here to discuss the issue. There is | >| a reservoir of oil and gas at the BOTTOM of a long length of pipe that | >| leads to the TOP of the well. That entire pipe is a "choke point" given | >| a constant pressure from below then the flow through the pipe is | >| determined by the size of the pipe. The pressure in the pipe diminishes | >| somewhat at the top of the pipe in relation to what it was at the bottom, | >| but that is not of importance here. The pressure _PAST_ the top of the | >| pie is significantly less than the pressure in the @#$%& pipe because | >| there is no "choke" on the flow. | >| | > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/BOP.JPG | > | >The gaskets have failed. There is still some restriction in the BOP or | >the lower gasket would not show a plume. | Possibly one or more of the six jacks that were to have crushed the | pipe actually did so, (instead of all of them failing), forcing a | rupture underneath it. | >The BOP is rated a 15,000 psi. The water pressure is 5000 ft head, | >30 ft head of water = 1 bar = 15 psi. 5000 ft head = 167 bar. | >167 * 15 psi = 15,000 psi. | Too much arithmetic! 5000 feet times .5 psi per foot equals 2500 psi. | Also167 * 15 psi = 2505 psi not 15,000. | John Polasek | I never could to arithmetic, I should stick to programming and let the computer do it. However, accusations against Hayward are completely unjustified, the congressmen looked like fools. I had to laugh... "Is this Thursday? Yes or no?" -- idiot ranting congressman. "Yes, it is Thursday..." -- cool as a cucumber Tony Hayward. Imagine that clown not knowing what day of the week it was and having to ask Hayward!
From: Androcles on 18 Jun 2010 15:07
"Michael Coburn" <mikcob(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:hvget762qv1(a)news5.newsguy.com... | On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 20:03:23 -0700, Bret Cahill wrote: | | > On Jun 17, 5:49 pm, Michael Coburn <mik...(a)verizon.net> wrote: | >> On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:48:54 -0700, Bret Cahill wrote: | >> >> [quoted text muted] | >> | >> > That's because there is a restriction up stream limiting flow, the ~ | >> > 1" piping from the well or city water main. | >> | >> Yup. | >> | >> > If you are downstream of Lake Mead at the foot of Hoover Dam you | >> > could open up thousands of 3/4" lines to the turbine inlets and never | >> > reduce the pressure on any of the lines. | >> | >> But there is a 3 mile pipe from the reservoir to the well head. | >> | >> > The real question is the size of the reservoir and BP, at least back | >> > in April, was claiming that was their top corp. secret. | >> | >> > The investigation committee has power of subpoena. They need to get | >> > what ever information BP has. | >> | >> > When it comes to vital geo resources everything should be public | >> > anyway. | >> | >> > Bret Cahill | >> | >> It ain't like your lake Mead deal at all. | > | > It's hard to say w/o more information. | > | > Most wells are in porous rock which restricts flow but how is this good | > news? | > | > They cannot splice into the old pipe so the only thing they can do is to | > drill down to the same area as the old one and start pumping. | > | > If they luck out and manage to lower the pressure drop by a factor of 3 | > they only cut the flow rate in the old pipe by half. | > | > The pressure drop due to friction over 3 miles at the recent estimates | > of flow rate would be less than 2 psi. 20" pipe at 1 ft/sec ignore | > viscosity and pipe roughness: | > | > http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_pipe_friction.cfm#calc | > | > If you cut that in half the pressure drop is about 0.5 psi. | > | > The pipe itself is the reservoir. | | NO. The pipe is a choke. If you make the pipe smaller the flow | decreases even as the pressure remains constant. HOWEVER, if you expand | the pipe at the top and do not do anything to restrict the flow then the | pressure at the LARGER top of the pipe will be less than the pressure at | the bottom of the pipe. That is what happens when you drill 4 relief | wells (install 4 additional pipes) near the top of the current well/ | pipe. You provide a place for the oil to go OTHER THAN through the | current well head. Relieving that pressure allows you to plug the | current head without blowing up the rest of the piping. | Correct. It'll take time to drill the relief; stamping feet, throwing the pacifier out the baby buggy and screaming isn't going to help anyone. |