From: zoara on
Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> You think all these people experiencing these problems are stupid?
> > The
>> Iphone 4 (or at least a batch of them) has a massive design flaw, a
> > shame as
>> well, as the rest of it is amazing. The phone is next to me now, in
> > its box,
>> awaiting a return bag from Orange.
>
> I'm not saying all these people are stupid. I'm just saying that what
> Apple says makes sense insofar that the bars on the iPhone are greatly
> misleading and not to be trusted.

The "misleading bars" claim is clouding the issue. There are two
complaints here:

1. Bridging the gap drops the signal, and this looks dramatic due to the
way that signal is represented by the bars. This, however, is little
different from bars dropping when the iPhone 3G (or many other phones)
are picked up. This will be solved by displaying the bars differently.

2. Bridging the gap drops the signal entirely in low-signal areas.
Again, this is similar to the iPhone 3G and other phones, except
reproducing complete signal loss on a 3G is a lot harder to trigger. On
the 3G it requires an unnatural cradling position and a longer wait; on
the 4 it just involves holding the phone lightly and (for me and many)
naturally, or can be triggered by a fingertip.

Issue 1 is clouding issue 2.

Issue 1 is easy to see but doesn't affect the function of the phone;
since it's easy to reproduce, many people are yelling. Other people are
yelling back that it happens on other phones, no big deal.

Issue 2 is harder to reproduce (you need a poor signal area) but is
definitely worse behaviour than an iPhone 3G (which at least keeps
enough signal to receive calls). This is the issue I'm bothered about,
but the one that is getting dismissed as though it were issue 1 (which
can be dismissed).

-z-


--
email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: zoara on
Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote:
> "smurf" <smurf(a)smurf.com> writes:
>
>> Bruce Horrocks wrote:
>>> You have probably seen
>>> <http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/02appleletter.html> by now,
>>> in which Apple claim to be 'stunned to find that the formula we use
> > > to
>>> calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally
>>> wrong'.
>>> Perhaps Apple should have worked a little harder on the algorithm *2
>>> years ago* when they changed it to show more bars for a given signal
>>> strength.
>>> http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10115756-233.html
>>
>> I suppose the alogrithm is the reason why an incoming call goes to
> > voicemail
>> when held in the hand, but rings perfectly fine on a table.
>
> No, the real reason will be that in this case the signal is so weak
> (despite the iPhone showing five bars when laying on the table) that
> the
> signal drop by holding it will cut the signal altogether.

Not quite. I can pick up an iPhone 4 and hold it in my hand and still
get signal; I can adjust my grip slightly (by millimetres) to bridge the
bottom band, and get "no signal", forcing calls to go to voicemail.

I can do the same with a phone on the table; bridge the gap with a
fingertip, lose all signal. Touch anywhere else with a fingertip and,
although it may drop, the drop is imperceptible.

My iPhone 3G, in the same place, has a minor drop but has to be held
very unnaturally. I can't get it to go to "no signal" in the same
circumstances.

The problem isn't that it loses some bars when you pick it up, it's that
it drops to "no signal" when touched, in a place that I (and others)
naturally touch when holding the phone. If you don't touch it, or you
always have strong signal, you'll be fine.

My friend, whose phone it is, has no problems in normal use at the same
desk but can reproduce it if he deliberately bridges the gap in the
bottom left corner. He just doesn't seem to do that when using the phone
naturally. I do - fortunately only when using the touchscreen, not when
on calls - and so don't believe I can get on with an iPhone 4 in real
life.

I could reproduce this on seven or eight phones in the Apple Store, too
(all those I tried). Bridge the gap, no signal. Unbridge, all fine.

I think it's a serious design/manufacturing problem for those
unfortunate enough to "hold the phone wrong" when we use it.

-z-


--
email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: Martin S Taylor on
Jochem Huhmann wrote
>> I'm not an antenna engineer, so way beyond me, but it does sound
>> plausible that when you bridge the 2 antennae, you change their
>> behaviour.
>
> This seems to be clear, yes. The question is if this is an disadvantage
> you're willing to accept for getting the advantages (better reception
> otherwise, smaller case, more room for a larger battery) or not.

Thanks for a lot of sense here, Jochem.

From my point of view, I very rarely use the thing as a phone so I'm not too
worried by any problems. I guess I'll find out next week when mine is
delivered.

What puzzles me about reception is the way both my iPhone 2 and Vt's iPhone
3GS display pretty much random numbers of bars at any given time. Can signal
strength vary from five bars to no signal (on both Edge and WiFi
independently) so often, so quickly?

MST

From: ray on
Martin S Taylor <mst(a)hRyEpMnOoVtEiTsHm.cIo.uSk> wrote:

> What puzzles me about reception is the way both my iPhone 2 and Vt's iPhone
> 3GS display pretty much random numbers of bars at any given time. Can signal
> strength vary from five bars to no signal (on both Edge and WiFi
> independently) so often, so quickly?

Network congestion plays a big part in that, I'm sure. I see the same on
both my iPhones and my Blackberry.
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From: Jochem Huhmann on
zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> writes:

>> No, the real reason will be that in this case the signal is so weak
>> (despite the iPhone showing five bars when laying on the table) that
>> the signal drop by holding it will cut the signal altogether.
>
> Not quite. I can pick up an iPhone 4 and hold it in my hand and still
> get signal; I can adjust my grip slightly (by millimetres) to bridge the
> bottom band, and get "no signal", forcing calls to go to voicemail.

Still, when the bars would indicate the signal more accurately you'd see
when you have a weak signal and could be more careful how you grip the
thing.

> The problem isn't that it loses some bars when you pick it up, it's that
> it drops to "no signal" when touched, in a place that I (and others)
> naturally touch when holding the phone. If you don't touch it, or you
> always have strong signal, you'll be fine.

This will be the reason that some people see this problem and others not.

> My friend, whose phone it is, has no problems in normal use at the same
> desk but can reproduce it if he deliberately bridges the gap in the
> bottom left corner. He just doesn't seem to do that when using the phone
> naturally. I do - fortunately only when using the touchscreen, not when
> on calls - and so don't believe I can get on with an iPhone 4 in real
> life.

Hmm, when I use my iPod touch with the right hand, the thumb fiddling
with the touchscreen, my little finger is exactly where that gap is on
the iPhone 4. I can easily rearrange my fingers to avoid that, but I
have to think of it. Still, if the bar display correctly indicated
signal strength, keeping an eye on that wouldn't be really a problem.

> I think it's a serious design/manufacturing problem for those
> unfortunate enough to "hold the phone wrong" when we use it.

I think Apple knew about this and thought it to be something they can
get away with. Call it a deliberate design tradeoff. Would have been
much easier on them if they had included a bumper in the box and got the
signal bars right from the beginning, though.


Jochem

--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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