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From: zoara on 5 Jul 2010 12:29 Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote: > >> You think all these people experiencing these problems are stupid? > > The >> Iphone 4 (or at least a batch of them) has a massive design flaw, a > > shame as >> well, as the rest of it is amazing. The phone is next to me now, in > > its box, >> awaiting a return bag from Orange. > > I'm not saying all these people are stupid. I'm just saying that what > Apple says makes sense insofar that the bars on the iPhone are greatly > misleading and not to be trusted. The "misleading bars" claim is clouding the issue. There are two complaints here: 1. Bridging the gap drops the signal, and this looks dramatic due to the way that signal is represented by the bars. This, however, is little different from bars dropping when the iPhone 3G (or many other phones) are picked up. This will be solved by displaying the bars differently. 2. Bridging the gap drops the signal entirely in low-signal areas. Again, this is similar to the iPhone 3G and other phones, except reproducing complete signal loss on a 3G is a lot harder to trigger. On the 3G it requires an unnatural cradling position and a longer wait; on the 4 it just involves holding the phone lightly and (for me and many) naturally, or can be triggered by a fingertip. Issue 1 is clouding issue 2. Issue 1 is easy to see but doesn't affect the function of the phone; since it's easy to reproduce, many people are yelling. Other people are yelling back that it happens on other phones, no big deal. Issue 2 is harder to reproduce (you need a poor signal area) but is definitely worse behaviour than an iPhone 3G (which at least keeps enough signal to receive calls). This is the issue I'm bothered about, but the one that is getting dismissed as though it were issue 1 (which can be dismissed). -z- -- email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: zoara on 5 Jul 2010 12:30 Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote: > "smurf" <smurf(a)smurf.com> writes: > >> Bruce Horrocks wrote: >>> You have probably seen >>> <http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/02appleletter.html> by now, >>> in which Apple claim to be 'stunned to find that the formula we use > > > to >>> calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally >>> wrong'. >>> Perhaps Apple should have worked a little harder on the algorithm *2 >>> years ago* when they changed it to show more bars for a given signal >>> strength. >>> http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10115756-233.html >> >> I suppose the alogrithm is the reason why an incoming call goes to > > voicemail >> when held in the hand, but rings perfectly fine on a table. > > No, the real reason will be that in this case the signal is so weak > (despite the iPhone showing five bars when laying on the table) that > the > signal drop by holding it will cut the signal altogether. Not quite. I can pick up an iPhone 4 and hold it in my hand and still get signal; I can adjust my grip slightly (by millimetres) to bridge the bottom band, and get "no signal", forcing calls to go to voicemail. I can do the same with a phone on the table; bridge the gap with a fingertip, lose all signal. Touch anywhere else with a fingertip and, although it may drop, the drop is imperceptible. My iPhone 3G, in the same place, has a minor drop but has to be held very unnaturally. I can't get it to go to "no signal" in the same circumstances. The problem isn't that it loses some bars when you pick it up, it's that it drops to "no signal" when touched, in a place that I (and others) naturally touch when holding the phone. If you don't touch it, or you always have strong signal, you'll be fine. My friend, whose phone it is, has no problems in normal use at the same desk but can reproduce it if he deliberately bridges the gap in the bottom left corner. He just doesn't seem to do that when using the phone naturally. I do - fortunately only when using the touchscreen, not when on calls - and so don't believe I can get on with an iPhone 4 in real life. I could reproduce this on seven or eight phones in the Apple Store, too (all those I tried). Bridge the gap, no signal. Unbridge, all fine. I think it's a serious design/manufacturing problem for those unfortunate enough to "hold the phone wrong" when we use it. -z- -- email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: Martin S Taylor on 5 Jul 2010 12:48 Jochem Huhmann wrote >> I'm not an antenna engineer, so way beyond me, but it does sound >> plausible that when you bridge the 2 antennae, you change their >> behaviour. > > This seems to be clear, yes. The question is if this is an disadvantage > you're willing to accept for getting the advantages (better reception > otherwise, smaller case, more room for a larger battery) or not. Thanks for a lot of sense here, Jochem. From my point of view, I very rarely use the thing as a phone so I'm not too worried by any problems. I guess I'll find out next week when mine is delivered. What puzzles me about reception is the way both my iPhone 2 and Vt's iPhone 3GS display pretty much random numbers of bars at any given time. Can signal strength vary from five bars to no signal (on both Edge and WiFi independently) so often, so quickly? MST
From: ray on 5 Jul 2010 12:57 Martin S Taylor <mst(a)hRyEpMnOoVtEiTsHm.cIo.uSk> wrote: > What puzzles me about reception is the way both my iPhone 2 and Vt's iPhone > 3GS display pretty much random numbers of bars at any given time. Can signal > strength vary from five bars to no signal (on both Edge and WiFi > independently) so often, so quickly? Network congestion plays a big part in that, I'm sure. I see the same on both my iPhones and my Blackberry. -- http://www.dream-weaver.com/email.php Web development promotion and seo http://www.spaldingcomputers.co.uk http://www.overseasmovingsolutions.com/
From: Jochem Huhmann on 5 Jul 2010 12:59
zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> writes: >> No, the real reason will be that in this case the signal is so weak >> (despite the iPhone showing five bars when laying on the table) that >> the signal drop by holding it will cut the signal altogether. > > Not quite. I can pick up an iPhone 4 and hold it in my hand and still > get signal; I can adjust my grip slightly (by millimetres) to bridge the > bottom band, and get "no signal", forcing calls to go to voicemail. Still, when the bars would indicate the signal more accurately you'd see when you have a weak signal and could be more careful how you grip the thing. > The problem isn't that it loses some bars when you pick it up, it's that > it drops to "no signal" when touched, in a place that I (and others) > naturally touch when holding the phone. If you don't touch it, or you > always have strong signal, you'll be fine. This will be the reason that some people see this problem and others not. > My friend, whose phone it is, has no problems in normal use at the same > desk but can reproduce it if he deliberately bridges the gap in the > bottom left corner. He just doesn't seem to do that when using the phone > naturally. I do - fortunately only when using the touchscreen, not when > on calls - and so don't believe I can get on with an iPhone 4 in real > life. Hmm, when I use my iPod touch with the right hand, the thumb fiddling with the touchscreen, my little finger is exactly where that gap is on the iPhone 4. I can easily rearrange my fingers to avoid that, but I have to think of it. Still, if the bar display correctly indicated signal strength, keeping an eye on that wouldn't be really a problem. > I think it's a serious design/manufacturing problem for those > unfortunate enough to "hold the phone wrong" when we use it. I think Apple knew about this and thought it to be something they can get away with. Call it a deliberate design tradeoff. Would have been much easier on them if they had included a bumper in the box and got the signal bars right from the beginning, though. Jochem -- "A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery |