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From: zoara on 6 Jul 2010 06:19 Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote: > zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> writes: > >>> No, the real reason will be that in this case the signal is so weak >>> (despite the iPhone showing five bars when laying on the table) that >>> the signal drop by holding it will cut the signal altogether. >> >> Not quite. I can pick up an iPhone 4 and hold it in my hand and still >> get signal; I can adjust my grip slightly (by millimetres) to bridge > > the >> bottom band, and get "no signal", forcing calls to go to voicemail. > > Still, when the bars would indicate the signal more accurately you'd > see > when you have a weak signal and could be more careful how you grip the > thing. I can't actually work out how to grip it comfortably without covering that corner. I've tried, cos I want to justify getting the phone. I can't. If I could, I'd hold it that way regardless of what the bars said. >> The problem isn't that it loses some bars when you pick it up, it's > > that >> it drops to "no signal" when touched, in a place that I (and others) >> naturally touch when holding the phone. If you don't touch it, or you >> always have strong signal, you'll be fine. > > This will be the reason that some people see this problem and others > not. Yup. Also people specifically using the death grip seem to have different levels of effect on it. Takes me maybe 20 seconds to kill it. One colleague can do it in five (at the same desk, phone held in same position). Another colleague takes nearly a minute. There doesn't seem to be any difference in how hard we grip it. >> My friend, whose phone it is, has no problems in normal use at the > > same >> desk but can reproduce it if he deliberately bridges the gap in the >> bottom left corner. He just doesn't seem to do that when using the > > phone >> naturally. I do - fortunately only when using the touchscreen, not > > when >> on calls - and so don't believe I can get on with an iPhone 4 in real >> life. > > Hmm, when I use my iPod touch with the right hand, the thumb fiddling > with the touchscreen, my little finger is exactly where that gap is on > the iPhone 4. I can easily rearrange my fingers to avoid that, but I > have to think of it. Still, if the bar display correctly indicated > signal strength, keeping an eye on that wouldn't be really a problem. I hold my phone in my left hand, using my left thumb (sometimes right index finger) to scroll and poke (or in both hands if I'm typing, or sometimes a kind of both-hand-cradle with the right hand secondary to the left). I can't use my right hand alone as it's a bit injured - it feels like I'm going to drop it and my thumb aches quickly. But even if I could, I think I'd hold it in my left, allowing my right hand for other things at the same time. Fnarr. >> I think it's a serious design/manufacturing problem for those >> unfortunate enough to "hold the phone wrong" when we use it. > > I think Apple knew about this and thought it to be something they can > get away with. Call it a deliberate design tradeoff. Would have been > much easier on them if they had included a bumper in the box and got > the > signal bars right from the beginning, though. I really can't see them ever considering putting a bumper in the box. Apple is too design-focused for that kind of kludge. -z- -- email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: zoara on 6 Jul 2010 06:19 Justin C <justin.1007(a)purestblue.com> wrote: > > If it's proved to be hardware I believe that this will give all those > supporters of WinMob devices a nice big stick with which to beat > Apple. WinMob? Android, surely? > Even if it's proved to be software there will be some sceptics out > there > who say that the software has been tweaked to make the hardware look > good. Apple's "we're changing the bars" isn't going to help this. If they *do* fix it, people will still point to Apple's statement and say "well, all they did was change the display!". Still, haters be hatin', you ain't gonna change that. There's a third possibility, and that is that this could be a *manufacturing* issue. The design is sound, the software is fine, but the manufacturing process slips when stamping out millions of phones in such a short period so the quality isn't the same as those used during design and testing. > Overall I think it's been a bit of a foot shooting exercise, > couldn't have done it better myself. Yeah, agreed with that. -z- -- email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: zoara on 6 Jul 2010 06:57 Sak Wathanasin <sw(a)nan.co.uk> wrote: > On 6 July, 10:22, zoara <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: > >> 4-5 bars on the 4, 3-4 on the 3G. It fluctuated, and we weren't being >> hardcore scientific about it (just enough to get some reasonably >> trustworthy results). > > Ok, so if we assume that the anandtech article is correct, for the > sake of argument, 4-5 bars suggests -101 to -80'ish (you must be near > the weak end of the 5 bars if it was slipping into 4). Now they say > that their worse case drop was -24 dBm, so you would have got SNRs of > somewhere between -125 and -105 or between "no signal" to maybe 1 > bar. If the Apple signal display hadn't been so biased towards the > top-end, it would have shown as maybe 1-2 bars to begin with: the > signal drop looks much more dramatic than it actually is, This is exactly what I mean by the bar display clouding the issue. I don't care how "dramatic" the dropoff is, or appears to be. What I car about is that the way I hold the phone, in the place that I usually sit, where I normally get calls with my 3G, I won't with a 4. You could cover the signal display with black tape and I'll still see the problem. I wouldn't mind so much if the 4 simply had more trouble with weak signals - after all, all phones differ. What annoys me is that if I hold the 4 a particular way, it behaves *better* than a 3G; if I just hold it normally (for me), it behaves worse. Again, I am not talking about what the display says, but about whether the phone can actually receive calls. So I have to learn to avoid a trigger point on the corner or put up with a phone that performs worse. They can replace the signal display with a little Steve Jobs doing the Agadoo naked for all I care, all I want to know is if it can connect to the network more or less often than my 3G, and that depends on how I hold the phone... >> Bingo. Unfortunately I'm in that minority and it pisses me off > > because >> it's a difficult tradeoff (for me, personally) as it is likely to > > affect >> me a lot. But there's a lot about the phone that is so much better > > than >> a 3GS; I have to decide which will be the wise tradeoff - a crappier >> screen, camera etc, or having to learn to change how I hold the > > phone. > > Or get a bumper or case. I've yet to find a case that didn't frustrate the hell out of me, mainly because it makes getting the phone in and out of a pocket more fiddly. My injured right hand strikes again. -z- -- email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: Woody on 6 Jul 2010 07:09 zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote: > Justin C <justin.1007(a)purestblue.com> wrote: >> >> If it's proved to be hardware I believe that this will give all those >> supporters of WinMob devices a nice big stick with which to beat >> Apple. > > WinMob? Android, surely? Yes, if all the win mob supporters were laughing you probably wouldn't be able to hear it outside the room. > >> Overall I think it's been a bit of a foot shooting exercise, >> couldn't have done it better myself. > > Yeah, agreed with that. Clearly as no matter what happens now, people will always say the iPhone 4 reception is bad -- Woody
From: Woody on 6 Jul 2010 07:09
zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote: > Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote: >> I think Apple knew about this and thought it to be something they can >> get away with. Call it a deliberate design tradeoff. Would have been >> much easier on them if they had included a bumper in the box and got >> the >> signal bars right from the beginning, though. > > I really can't see them ever considering putting a bumper in the box. > Apple is too design-focused for that kind of kludge. Well, I would think it would be better than having to go back and redesiggn the phone, as presumably that would mean they would have to replace the 2 million already out there -- Woody |