The Electric Car
in [Design]
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From: Eeyore on 4 Oct 2007 19:59 Rich Grise wrote: > Eeyore wrote: > > Jamie wrote: > > > >> You guys are funny, near us, we have a gambling casino, "Mohegan Sun" > >> They have and have had for at least 4 years now that I know of > >> 3 Fuel cell generator complexes. These units operate the main facility > >> 100% with plenty of reserve. They obviously are self sufficient because > >> all they ever need to do is replace mechanical things that wear out, > >> which is normal in any generating facility. > > > > So where does the energy to replace 'the things that wear out' come from ? > > > > Is this solar powered electrolytic hydrogen being used ? > > > > How much did it cost ? How much power does it generate ? What's the price per > > kWh ? > > I just wonder where they're getting the hydrogen for these fuel > cells. It turns out they're using good old natural gas. Graham
From: Eeyore on 4 Oct 2007 20:13 BradGuth wrote: > I haven't invented or even discovered one damn thing. Thought as much. Graham
From: Eeyore on 4 Oct 2007 20:17 Rich Grise wrote: > John Larkin wrote: > > BradGuth <bradguth(a)gmail.com> > >> > >>A sufficient mass production of those 100+ meter towers, along with > >>their wind turbine driven generators plus whatever extent of the best > >>available PVs that can also take advantage of each given tower without > >>devouring or otherwise contaminating precious surface ground area > >>seems entirely worth our doing, > > > > I get it. The solar cells have more output when they're closer to the > > sun. Good idea. > > I wonder if there's a measurable difference in solar influx between, > say, Death Valley and the top of Mount Everest? Fewer clouds in Death Valley AIUI. Graham
From: krw on 4 Oct 2007 20:18 In article <pan.2007.10.04.17.04.19.217709(a)example.net>, rich(a)example.net says... > On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:11:02 -0700, John Larkin wrote: > > On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:29:09 -0000, Willie.Mookie(a)gmail.com wrote: > >> > >>THE ANSWER - LOW COST HYDROGEN FROM SUNLIGHT > >> > >>One simple solution I have is to reduce the cost of photovoltaics to > >>less than 7 cents a peak watt - and use that DC power to produce > >>hydrogen from DI water at very los cost. Then store that hydrogen in > >>empty oil wells - about 100 day supply is needed for a stable national > >>hydrogen supply system.. > > > > 7 cents a watt would be wonderful, but it's about 30:1 away from what > > anybody is doing, even at the research level. And if we had such > > power, the first rational use is to dump it into the grid, not convert > > it to hydrogen at absurd net efficiency. > > > > Low cost solar would be great, but there's no particular link to > > hydrogen. Too many "advanced" energy concepts are predicated on > > ultra-cheap solar power, cheap enough to waste prodigiously. That > > ain't gonna happen. > > > > Anybody remember when they first started using nuclear, and electricity > was going to be virtually free? Sure, I remember. My brother was VP of a power company that was selling the concept, except he thought they were serious and sold my mother on electric (resistive) heat. I was just an EE student at the time, so no one listened. > I guess that one didn't pan out either. )-; His "Watt-Saver" (PF correction) scheme didn't either. -- Keith
From: krw on 4 Oct 2007 20:23
In article <1191527459.306136.51630(a)22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, bradguth(a)gmail.com says... > On Oct 3, 7:17 pm, krw <k...(a)att.bizzzz> wrote: > > In article <4703c6a...(a)news.cadence.com>, edmond...(a)ieee.org says... > > > > > > > > > > > > >BradGuthwrote: > > > > On Oct 2, 9:33 am, Charlie Edmondson <edmond...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > > > > > >>Hey Braddie, > > > >>I wasn't saying LOX was safe! I was saying, compared to H2O2, it is > > > >>soda water! 8-) > > > > > > OK, then put your relatively safe "soda water" tank worth of LOx to > > > > work within a Hummer or GM Volt, and basically go for it, especially > > > > if it's supposedly so much better off than h2o2. > > > > > > What's the combined LOx+c12h26 of clean Mj/kg worth these days? > > > > > > How much LOx per gallon of c12h26 or fossil whatever are we talking > > > > about? > > > > > > What's the well insulated storage tank of that amount of LOx going to > > > > take, in outside measured gross volume, if looking at only a 5%/month > > > > loss? > > > > > > Is that insulated amount of LOx any smaller than a locomotive tanker > > > > car? > > > > - Brad Guth - > > > > > Why bother when there is all this nice atmospheric O2 around to oxidize > > > my fuel. Sure, it has this nice regulating N2 mixed in, but that way > > > everything else don't burst into flames! I ain't going into outer space > > > in this thing, ya know! ;-) > > > > But if you had H2O2 you could be in outer space[*], like Brad. > > That is true, as the h2o2/c12h26 powered Hummer or GM Volt would in > fact operate even better while in space, such as upon our moon, or > even while under terrestrial water or within whatever muck, and still > be delivering terrific empg as well as contributing zero NOx. A Hummer would operate even better in space? Wouldn't traction be a bit of a problem? You are a space shot, alright! -- Keith |