The future of Java
in [Java Programming]
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From: Lew on 23 Nov 2009 00:49 Lew wrote: >> I rate MySQL far, far below Postgres, Derby and the free versions of >> Oracle DB and IBM DB2. Arne Vajhøj wrote: > We do know that there is a "cult" of people that believe that > PostgreSQL is "enterprise" and MySQL is "toy", but given that > MySQL dominates the highend over PostgreSQL the reality seems > to be the exact opposite. My comments are based on my experience with the platforms, and that of colleagues who've used them, and are my own personal assessment. YMMV. What evidence do you have that MySQL "dominates" the high end over PG? Performance charts that I've seen, hardly to be taken as gospel but perhaps indicative, show PG maintaining faster performance over MySQL for larger databases that need referential integrity and other features not available in the MyISAM engine. Anecdotes told me by colleagues speak of data corruption and other problems with MySQL that I have not heard about PG. Other anecdotes from colleagues compare Postgres's performance favorably to Oracle DB in some circumstances. I've not encountered anyone who's found MySQL superior to Postgres in their actual work, but I have encountered the contrary. The relational databases I've used professionally that have done well on the high end have included Oracle DB, IBM DB2 and Red Brick. I use Postgres in my personal development projects but that does not represent any sort of "high end". MySQL has only annoyed me, even at the low end, to the point where I simply will not consider it for anything serious. My major complaint with MySQL is its weakness in the implementation of SQL. It's so far out of standard as to make it a real PITA to use. I detest it. Extrapolate as you will from this single data point. -- Lew
From: Arved Sandstrom on 23 Nov 2009 06:30 Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Lew wrote: >> Roedy Green wrote: >>>> Even if they are swallowed in the blender, I would like to publicly >>>> thank them their part in providing me Java, MySQL and Open Office. >> >> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> SUN did not provide you MySQL. SUN just acquired the company >>> not long ago. And have lost most of the original people since then. >> >> Small loss. >> >> I rate MySQL far, far below Postgres, Derby and the free versions of >> Oracle DB and IBM DB2. > > We do know that there is a "cult" of people that believe that > PostgreSQL is "enterprise" and MySQL is "toy", but given that > MySQL dominates the highend over PostgreSQL the reality seems > to be the exact opposite. > > Arne I'm prepared to accept that all of the above is true, namely that there does exist such a cult, and also that for some definition of the word "dominate" that MySQL dominates the high-end over PostgreSQL. In fact there's little argument that MySQL "dominates" PostgreSQL, period, in the sense of downloads, installations and numbers of supporters. In a similar fashion, all flavours of Internet Explorer dominate all other web browsers, and Windows dominates Mac OS X and Linux. In the technical sense of "dominate" I'm not prepared to accept that MySQL dominates PostgreSQL. Not for a "high-end" situation. Of course we'd need to sit down and first define what "high-end" actually means. To me a high-end database concentrates on features like data integrity, scalability, reliability, solid procedural language support, constraints, serious transactional support etc etc, all of which are things that PostgreSQL has been working on since the beginning, and all of which are MySQL after-thoughts. MySQL has storage engines out the ying-yang, and PostgreSQL has *one*. This allows the Postgres developers to concentrate on quality, IMHO. And by all accounts, the recent decrease in quality and reliability of MySQL products is enough reason to stay away, even before comparing technical features. Ultimately it boils down to benchmarking your own application in realistic field conditions. To me high-end also means that you've got a person or people who qualify as DBAs - it's their #1 job to administer the database of choice. I'll bet a lot of the benchmarks that highlight MySQL over PostgreSQL are set up by folks who don't class as DBAs for either, or just for MySQL. In any case I'm willing to bet that for a "real" high-end app in realistic conditions that Postgres will win out. AHS
From: David Segall on 23 Nov 2009 11:12 Roedy Green <see_website(a)mindprod.com.invalid> wrote: >On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:59:04 +0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie ><martin(a)address-in-sig.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted >someone who said : > >>How do you rate H2 against Derby and HSQL? > >For a comparison of PosGreSQL and MySQL see >http://mindprod.com/jgloss/postgresql.html > >The information is a few years old. And it ignores the gulf between the license conditions of the two products. MySQL is GPL but the drivers are not LGPL so you can only incorporate a MySQL driver into your application and distribute the MySQL database if your software is open source. Even if you have some weird objection to open source there is a genuinely, freely distributable, version of all the commercial heavyweight databases although they may restrict the number of processors, RAM or disk size. Why risk contravening MySQL's deliberately confusing license conditions? I have a list of freely distributable, heavy duty databases at <http://database.profectus.com.au>. The page also includes a list of open source, relational databases that will run in the same JVM as your application. The page is intended to be comprehensive so I would appreciate it if you have any additions or corrections.
From: John B. Matthews on 23 Nov 2009 13:21 In article <sa6lg5hqchkak2clhrfc1l6fgicv3derht(a)4ax.com>, David Segall <david(a)address.invalid> wrote: > Roedy Green <see_website(a)mindprod.com.invalid> wrote: > > >On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:59:04 +0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie > ><martin(a)address-in-sig.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted > >someone who said : > > > >>How do you rate H2 against Derby and HSQL? > > > >For a comparison of PosGreSQL and MySQL see > >http://mindprod.com/jgloss/postgresql.html > > > >The information is a few years old. > > And it ignores the gulf between the license conditions of the two > products. MySQL is GPL but the drivers are not LGPL so you can only > incorporate a MySQL driver into your application and distribute the > MySQL database if your software is open source. Even if you have some > weird objection to open source there is a genuinely, freely > distributable, version of all the commercial heavyweight databases > although they may restrict the number of processors, RAM or disk > size. Why risk contravening MySQL's deliberately confusing license > conditions? Thank you for clearly stating some implications of the MySQL license terms. Here's a discussion of the linking exception offered by many competitors: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception> > I have a list of freely distributable, heavy duty databases at > <http://database.profectus.com.au>. The page also includes a list of > open source, relational databases that will run in the same JVM as > your application. The page is intended to be comprehensive so I would > appreciate it if you have any additions or corrections. I would add that Derby and H2 can function as stand-alone servers, in addition to working in embedded mode. I'm not familiar with the other embedded offerings mentioned. -- John B. Matthews trashgod at gmail dot com <http://sites.google.com/site/drjohnbmatthews>
From: Mark on 24 Nov 2009 04:34
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:01:09 -0800, Roedy Green <see_website(a)mindprod.com.invalid> wrote: >Years ago I read that computer companies often do well in recessions. >Companies try to save money by firing people and replacing them with >computers. Or they cancel new IT projects to save money and cut back on maintenance. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by everyone you will need use a different method of posting. [Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.] |