Upgrading Macs
in [UK Mac]
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From: James Dore on 9 Apr 2010 11:02 On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:28:55 +0100, Peter Ceresole <peter(a)cara.demon.co.uk> wrote: > Woody <usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> wrote: > >> I am not that old, and cope well with technical stuff. However, I can't >> be bothered now > > Yup. I grew out of it before I hit 30, having built dozens of machines from bits, bought, begged, borrowed, sto^h er, borrowed - some worked, some didn't, most ran windows, some ran Netware, some ran Linux. It was a tedious process which ended when I went all-mac at home. Actually that's a Lie - I have a homebrew blackbox with very modern hardware in it, which is supposed to be my home VM box running SLES 11 - but the PSU has had a funny and keeps switching off. I am now finding it very difficult to match a PSU to the motherboard. Sometimes too much choice is a bad thing.... Cheers, -- James Dore New College IT Officer james.dore(a)new / it-support(a)new
From: T i m on 9 Apr 2010 11:22 On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:58:28 +0100, "James Dore" <james.dore(a)new.ox.ac.uk> wrote: >On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:42:58 +0100, T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > >> >> Also, are you saying that if you are lucky enough to be able to afford >> and select a ready made system that for fills all your needs that's >> *better* in some way than a system you can easily build or adapt to do >> the same thing and often more for less is it >> > >Um, like, DU-UH, yes! Ok? Care to explain why? Assuming we are talking about the final product here, not how it came into being. > > >> (particularly if said building is part of the involvement in the >> project)? > >This bit does not follow: If building a system is part of the project, it >necessarily does not meet the criteria in your first statement - "a ready >made system that for fills (sic) all your needs..." - and is a separate >question. Ok, and? It was an if ... as in "in my case it wouldn't be considered a negative or deterrent ... even if I had to build it myself" ... etc etc. Does that work better for you (I'm lost and don't care)? > If you need to build your own, obviously you won't buy a Mac. If >you need a ready-made system that FULFILLS all your needs, you will. Oh, so that's how you spell it. I wonder if I'll remember the next time (I doubt it). Also (FWIW) I was trying to say (sorry I'm not very good with spelling or words) is that I can see why *having* to build something would be a pain if you didn't mind that sorta thing. So, say I could build an Apple computer from parts as easily as I could for a PC and build both for the same money as ready made, I would probably still build (assemble) my own because it's what I like to do (and if it saves money all the better). Just in the same way I don't *mind* (/often enjoy) assembling my own furniture from a pack of stuff or building a car when I could have bought one ready made much much cheaper. I could have also just bought one hand made by someone else for much much more! ;-) Cheers, T i m
From: T i m on 9 Apr 2010 11:29 On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 16:02:09 +0100, "James Dore" <james.dore(a)new.ox.ac.uk> wrote: >On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:28:55 +0100, Peter Ceresole ><peter(a)cara.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> Woody <usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> I am not that old, and cope well with technical stuff. However, I can't >>> be bothered now >> >> Yup. > >I grew out of it before I hit 30, having built dozens of machines from >bits, bought, begged, borrowed, sto^h er, borrowed - some worked, some >didn't, most ran windows, some ran Netware, some ran Linux. It was a >tedious process which ended when I went all-mac at home. So why did you ever bother doing it? If you did it because you had to (money etc) then there's the reason and justifiably why you wouldn't necessarily enjoy it. > >Actually that's a Lie - I have a homebrew blackbox with very modern >hardware in it, which is supposed to be my home VM box running SLES 11 - >but the PSU has had a funny and keeps switching off. I am now finding it >very difficult to match a PSU to the motherboard. Sometimes too much >choice is a bad thing.... Yup, choosing the wrong thing in the first place etc. ;-) Cheers, T i m
From: Woody on 9 Apr 2010 11:31 On 09/04/2010 15:56, T i m wrote: > On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:28:40 +0100, Woody<usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> > wrote: > >>> Hmm, that description sounds like it comes from someone who didn't >>> really know what they were doing? ;-) >> >> Not true, i have fiddled and faffed with many PCs. > > But that's coming from *you*. Umm.. that is surely the only one it can come from in my post? >> Unless i enjoy doing it obviously but PC upgrades aren't particularly >> interesting, compared to other stuff! > > Of course, depending on the 'other stuff'. And don't get me wrong (I'm > sure you haven't / wouldn't), it's not the actual doing necessarily > but the potential to achieve something that you want and may not exist > already. Well, yes, but by buying the ready made / easy thing that works for me, I don't preclude having the potential to achieve something that I want that may not exist already. > Like, I wanted a low power, low cost and silent WHS and as > soon as you go that way you are guided into the media PC sector where > small = an excuse to charge you more. Well, it is harder to get things to fit well in a small space, so it isn't really an 'excuse' as such. It took a long time until there was something with the same spec as the mini for the price. I almost got one of those little mini-copy dells recently until I stuck the new system on my mini server (which is working really well). > So I settled for a basic black > midi case and PSU because it served my purposes and was �22. The low > power Atom motherboard came with a fan for the North bridge and I > replaced that with a passive cooler. I then made up some clear ducting > to ensure the cooling air went from the front, over the 3 500G laptop > drives and was forced over the CPU and North bridge and out by the > 120mm fan in the PSU. The 'extra' work took another 10 mins and a > couple of quid for the plastic sheets. Whilst the result is probably > bigger than I would like it doesn't even notice in the dark corner > behind out TV. Well, that is good if you have the space. Most people who want one of these things dont want some ugly pc box in their living room, which is really what you are paying with for those things. > It cost way less than a second hand Mini, is quieter > than my Mini and is infinitely more serviceable and upgradeable. Maybe > if Apple made the Midi we have often talked about I would have > considered one. Maybe, but the fact is that it isn't like the mini, so it is hardly surprising that it cost less. I could make a machine that was cheaper than all my macs if I didn't keep to the same spec! If your requirement was to make something the same size as the mini, it would have cost you more. > So, we aren't talking flashing LED fans, water cooling or turbo speeds > here, we are talking about providing a solution for a specific need > that may not exist otherwise (as in cost / solution). Well, yes, although I don't see why what you have is not like an ordinary PC with a quiet fan? or am I missing something. >>> I already said that playing with this stuff isn't for everyone but if >>> it is, Apple kit is probably less flexible than PC stuff (once past >>> the basic stuff). >> >> This is true, although it depends on what you want. > > > Of course and I fully understand that / why some people don't want the > 'bother' of building / modding. For me it is no 'bother' because it > often provides a solution I couldn't get anywhere else. Same with > building my own car or boat or re-building my own motorbike. Anyone > can just buy something, it takes a bit more to build your own (if you > like that sort of thing) and the rewards (for those who do etc) are > often greater. [1] You really need to stop adding footnotes to your posts, as that is the second post in a row you had references to a note but didn't include the note! Yes, the rewards are great for those people who like to do that, however the actual rewards (ie, tangable rewards) are no greater. So you are doing it because you want to do it and that is what your reward is. If I go out to buy a car, I get the car I want, and it works until I need to get it fixed. If you build your car, you spend a long time building your car and you get what you want. However, it is not necessarily better than my car to me, in fact I have never been in a car built by a person that I would want to have as my only car, even if I have been in some fun ones (but then I have been in some fun purchased ones too). With the PC you described, if I wanted a WHS I could go to a shop and buy one, that would be small and quiet. It would cost a bit more money than your solution I am guessing (but how much), but it would probably be smaller, would probably look better (obviously subjective) and I could go to the shop, buy it, put on on the TV and 5 minutes later I am up and running. You say yours was half an hour but if you add all the time it took you from looking up the parts, putting it together, modding it, installing the system, hooking it up, I am guessing many hours of work. From my point of view, there is no way factoring in my time / cost equation that I am now using that it could be cheaper, it would be a lot more expensive, so therefore it would have to be something I really wanted to do. I can understand it works out well for you, but for me it sounds a lot like work! >> I mean PC stuff is >> less flexible, but you end up with a PC at the end. > > Erm? ;-) Yes, you can build a windows / linux PC for cheaper with more flexibilty, no argument. However, you then have a windows / linux PC which for me is cutting into a christmas cake and finding out it is a sponge. Yes, it does the job but it is not what I want! >> I did look at >> putting OSX on this PC (i7 860 8GB 2TB) but it hung at the rebooting >> stage saying waiting for hardware. > > But that's 'hacking' so what you were expecting right? Indeed, I didn't expect it to work. Would be nice though. 8 cores, 8 gig of ram, 2 terabyte of disk and windows on the top. Back to the wife comment I guess - you marry the supermodel, then when you get bored with the hardware you find out the OS is a bit limited! -- Woody
From: Peter Ceresole on 9 Apr 2010 11:44
Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie(a)sometimes.sessile.org> wrote: > Not like The Old Days, where it really was quite satisfying to work > out the right combination of settings to wedge a modem, two serial > ports, a NIC, a SoundBlaster, and a CDrom interface into the few > available IRQ/DMA channels. And then tweaking the boot sequence to get > over 590k base memory free so that Ultima Underworld would run. Oh yes! I remember getting my first PeeCee at a show, and my Fido sysop messaged me saying 'What did you get? How much does it cost?' and when I told him, 'Cancel the order, we can do better and cheaper'. And we did. Or at least, he did. Great network, Fido. -- Peter |