Upgrading Macs
in [UK Mac]
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From: SteveH on 9 Apr 2010 12:10 Peter Ceresole <peter(a)cara.demon.co.uk> wrote: > T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > > > But we weren't talking about being bothered or able, we were talking > > about the ability to do so if you wanted. > > And the only (but vital) point I was making was that with a Mac there > was no point to it. > > If you want to build a kit job, fine, do that. But then don't get a Mac. > However, the overwhelming majority of users don't want to get a kit; > they just want a machine that works. In fact the greatest number never > upgrade their machines, not even to add RAM. Or even to update their > anti-virus defenses, which on a PeeCee is much more of a disaster than > on any Mac. I 'built' an iMac tower out of an iMac with a broken screen a few years back. Never used it and ended up taking it down the tip, as I should have done in the first place. -- SteveH
From: T i m on 9 Apr 2010 12:23 On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 16:44:29 +0100, peter(a)cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote: >T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > >> But we weren't talking about being bothered or able, we were talking >> about the ability to do so if you wanted. > >And the only (but vital) point I was making was that with a Mac there >was no point to it. It seems to be a point for the people who do modify their Mac though (and more to the point the point of this thread). ;-) > >If you want to build a kit job, fine, do that. But then don't get a Mac. We know, but the point was 'upgrading your Mac'. >However, the overwhelming majority of users don't want to get a kit; Never suggested they did. >they just want a machine that works. Don't we all? > In fact the greatest number never >upgrade their machines, not even to add RAM. Yep, as I said. > Or even to update their >anti-virus defenses, which on a PeeCee is much more of a disaster than >on any Mac. What's that got to do with it? (and I guess you mean 'not updating'). Cheers, T i m
From: Peter Ceresole on 9 Apr 2010 13:32 T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > What's that got to do with it? (and I guess you mean 'not updating'). No, T i m, I meant exactly what I wrote. Do read it again. -- Peter
From: T i m on 9 Apr 2010 14:30 On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 16:31:41 +0100, Woody <usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> wrote: >On 09/04/2010 15:56, T i m wrote: >> On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:28:40 +0100, Woody<usenet(a)alienrat.co.uk> >> wrote: >> >>>> Hmm, that description sounds like it comes from someone who didn't >>>> really know what they were doing? ;-) >>> >>> Not true, i have fiddled and faffed with many PCs. >> >> But that's coming from *you*. > >Umm.. that is surely the only one it can come from in my post? I was making a lighthearted point (or trying to). ;-( > >>> Unless i enjoy doing it obviously but PC upgrades aren't particularly >>> interesting, compared to other stuff! >> >> Of course, depending on the 'other stuff'. And don't get me wrong (I'm >> sure you haven't / wouldn't), it's not the actual doing necessarily >> but the potential to achieve something that you want and may not exist >> already. > >Well, yes, but by buying the ready made / easy thing that works for me, >I don't preclude having the potential to achieve something that I want >that may not exist already. Ok. But doesn't that original choice have an impact on that potential? Like, if it happens to be a big box with empty bays etc? And this is all assuming we always go out and buy new for exactly what we want when we want it? I wonder how many people have found themselves with a 'spare' computer and wished to put it to different service only to find out they couldn't without doing some sort of upgrade, am upgrade that may not have been possible because of limitations not foreseen at purchase time? Of course we can't predict the future but with a more open / generic design (and that considered at up front) I would have thought the options would have been greater? > >> Like, I wanted a low power, low cost and silent WHS and as >> soon as you go that way you are guided into the media PC sector where >> small = an excuse to charge you more. > >Well, it is harder to get things to fit well in a small space, so it >isn't really an 'excuse' as such. Less is more sorta thing? And it's the numbers game of course. > It took a long time until there was >something with the same spec as the mini for the price. I bet, especially if you only pay �100 for it. ;-) >I almost got one of those little mini-copy dells recently until I stuck >the new system on my mini server (which is working really well). I considered fixing one of the SX-260's (I think it was, blown PSU caps I think was their weakness), and was offered it for nowt when I declined. I didn't want it as I saw it as a liability ('non std'). > >><snip>Whilst the result is probably >> bigger than I would like it doesn't even notice in the dark corner >> behind out TV. > >Well, that is good if you have the space. Well I don't really but I can't justify any more cash. > Most people who want one of >these things dont want some ugly pc box in their living room, Nor do I (and don't have). ;-) > which is >really what you are paying with for those things. Spose. > > > It cost way less than a second hand Mini, is quieter >> than my Mini and is infinitely more serviceable and upgradeable. Maybe >> if Apple made the Midi we have often talked about I would have >> considered one. > >Maybe, but the fact is that it isn't like the mini, It is to me. >so it is hardly >surprising that it cost less. It cost me more. But the point was I couldn't make the Mini fit this new role (and I had considered such). I also have the C2D Mini that's not been turned on for maybe 6 months but it wasn't suitable for the same reasons (of course). > I could make a machine that was cheaper >than all my macs if I didn't keep to the same spec! Cheaper than all your Macs eh. Is that like John is fat, Fred is fat but Terry is fatter than both of them put together? ;-) >If your requirement was to make something the same size as the mini, it >would have cost you more. Oh indeed. > >> So, we aren't talking flashing LED fans, water cooling or turbo speeds >> here, we are talking about providing a solution for a specific need >> that may not exist otherwise (as in cost / solution). > >Well, yes, although I don't see why what you have is not like an >ordinary PC with a quiet fan? or am I missing something. No, you aren't, it's exactly that as long as said PC was equally quiet and only consumed 39W with 3 x 500G drives. > >><snip> Anyone >> can just buy something, it takes a bit more to build your own (if you >> like that sort of thing) and the rewards (for those who do etc) are >> often greater. [1] > >You really need to stop adding footnotes to your posts, as that is the >second post in a row you had references to a note but didn't include the >note! Doh. I think in both cases I was trying to get out in a bit of a hurry. > >Yes, the rewards are great for those people who like to do that, however >the actual rewards (ie, tangable rewards) are no greater. Oh indeed. > So you are >doing it because you want to do it and that is what your reward is. Well, it's more than that for me. Getting something I may not be able to otherwise AND then using it is what it's about for me. > If I >go out to buy a car, I get the car I want, and it works until I need to >get it fixed. When I've generally got cars they have 'come along at the right price'. > If you build your car, you spend a long time building your >car and you get what you want. Or nearer than I could get via any other path and something I stand a better chance maintaining in the future (because I chose something 'maintainable' for the donor vehicle and a kit that did the same). > However, it is not necessarily better >than my car to me, in fact I have never been in a car built by a person >that I would want to have as my only car, Oh indeed, but we were talking about kit cars in this thread. ;-) > even if I have been in some >fun ones (but then I have been in some fun purchased ones too). Of course. My 'fastest ride' was in a (real) Lotus 7. It wasn't fast as in speed but did it go round corners and stop quickly! > >With the PC you described, if I wanted a WHS I could go to a shop and >buy one, that would be small and quiet. Seriously, I don't think you would get one as quiet or possibly low power for_the_money. That may not bother you but was part of my goal. > It would cost a bit more money >than your solution I am guessing (but how much), but it would probably >be smaller, would probably look better (obviously subjective) and I >could go to the shop, buy it, put on on the TV and 5 minutes later I am >up and running. If you could etc (as quiet, as low power, as expandable) yes. >You say yours was half an hour but if you add all the time it took you >from looking up the parts, putting it together, modding it, installing >the system, hooking it up, I am guessing many hours of work. Oh indeed and as mentioned elsewhere, if I costed my time etc ... but that's not what it's all about for me. > > From my point of view, there is no way factoring in my time / cost >equation that I am now using that it could be cheaper, it would be a lot >more expensive, so therefore it would have to be something I really >wanted to do. Of course, this wasn't d-i-y advocacy. ;-) > >I can understand it works out well for you, but for me it sounds a lot >like work! It's funny. Even when I was doing this_sort_of_thing as part of my job (hardware / PC / LAN / WAN support or PC hardware training) I was still happy to do what *I* wanted for me, and still am pretty much. > >>> I mean PC stuff is >>> less flexible, but you end up with a PC at the end. >> >> Erm? ;-) > >Yes, you can build a windows / linux PC for cheaper with more >flexibilty, no argument. Phew. > However, you then have a windows / linux PC >which for me is cutting into a christmas cake and finding out it is a >sponge. Yes, it does the job but it is not what I want! Ah, well, of course (but not what we are talking about as such). > >>> I did look at >>> putting OSX on this PC (i7 860 8GB 2TB) but it hung at the rebooting >>> stage saying waiting for hardware. >> >> But that's 'hacking' so what you were expecting right? > >Indeed, I didn't expect it to work. Would be nice though. 8 cores, 8 gig >of ram, 2 terabyte of disk and windows on the top. Should have been a flyer! > >Back to the wife comment I guess - you marry the supermodel, then when >you get bored with the hardware you find out the OS is a bit limited! Indeed and the only reason I haven't married a super model (of course). ;-) Cheers, T i m
From: Rowland McDonnell on 9 Apr 2010 14:34
Colin Harper <colinharper(a)x.com.invalid> wrote: [snip] > Not really difficult. There are plenty of guides out there. You're correct > though, I was very wary of working around the exposed HT on the CRT. I > followed discharge procedures to the letter! *VERY* important to do so with the old compact Macs. If you fail to discharge to the earthing lug, you'll blow up some circuitry - one bit of which is a custom Apple IC which hasn't been made since the early 1990s at the latest AFAICT. Dunno about eMacs. btw, my dad (15st ish) once failed to discharge an old colour monitor before working on it. The muscle spasm when he got bitten by the best part of 25kV threw him backwards across the workshop for a soft landing on one of his rather skinny colleagues. I discovered this when I watched my dad at work poking around inside the back of a different colour monitor, and that very same skinny colleague was in the room and made very very sure he was stood well clear of any repeat of the event. So I asked why and got told. Of course I smirked. Anyway, careful out there kiddies, some folks will tell you that monitor HT is no hazard when the machine's off. They're talking bollocks. Take careful precautions - yeah, yeah, it's got a bleed resistor on the circuit diagram (not early compact Macs, though). But is that part still in spec and doing it's job properly? Not always, it ain't. Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking |