Vishay Mosfet group going under?
in [Design]
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From: Joerg on 7 Jun 2010 09:46 krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:29:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 14:29:08 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 14:02:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>>>> Several manufacturers are apparently dumping these lines (CS10?). All but a >>>>>>> few crystals (14.7456MHz, and such) are custom ordered. This one happens to >>>>>>> be 12.0MHz. In reality it can be anything from 4-40MHz. We also use a >>>>>>> 12.5MHz crystal in the product. I could easily use it, but with 12.7K in >>>>>>> inventory there isn't any point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When I did that with an inductor for a client a long time ago we looked >>>>>>>> at it and it was "Wow, custom from Taiwan costs less than catalog from >>>>>>>> the US". So they are still using that Taiwanese inductor. >>>>>>> Yes, these crystals are from China, too. >>>>>> If a certain type seems to get dropped you might want to ask around. In >>>>>> China there always seems to be someone who keeps making older stuff. For >>>>>> example, through-hole parts and single-sided phenolic are kicking and >>>>>> alive over there. When you ask a board house about phenolic in the US >>>>>> that can result in a blank stare ;-) >>>>> Yeah, we have no trouble finding someone else. It's just some work showing >>>>> that the new parts are really equivalent. It also takes 12 weeks (or more) to >>>>> get the evaluation parts before useful quantities can be ordered (then another >>>>> 12 weeks). >>>> For a crystal? It's been a while but I could always get them in two >>>> weeks if needed. In a real crunch within the same week. >>> At one time, sure. No longer. >>> >>>> But yeah, China >>>> tends to take longer and often the willingness to expedite drops down >>>> when the supplier grows and takes on more important (a.k.a. bigger) >>>> customers. Been there :-( >>> Apparently these parts are only sourced in China, now. Even crystal >>> oscillator lead times have slipped out that far and the disty can, under >>> normal circumstances, program them. >> >> Hmm, putting my capitalist hat on (which I usually only take off at >> night ...) all this opens numerous opportunities: >> >> a. A "good-old-days" type of service for crystals. > If the bureacrats left manufacturers alone it wouldn't have to be that way, at least not for higher end stuff. > The problem here is that there isn't enough money in crystals anymore to make > them worthwhile for anyone but the Chinese. > >> b. A futures trading system for components. With hedge contracts and the >> whole nine yards. > > Isn't that what disties do? They have the added advantage of being fronted by > some manufacturers. > They are mostly just a sales outlet for the manufacturers. Typically they don't do speculative buys. >> c. Parts obsolescence insurance plans with a leadtime rider, with an >> (expensive) option to also insure against excessive leadtimes. > > Quick, call AIG. > >> d. Hunter businesses, where there are numerous very smart engineers who >> no longer participate in the productive life of a circuit designer but >> canvas the market all day long. In search of parts that shoot up in >> leadtime but where they find out that these are crucial to some >> products. Then buy the whole stock in one fell swoop, and re-sell it to >> companies that failed to move away from JIT. > > e. Index Arbitrage. Buy in the US and sell in Europe. Buy in China and sell > in the US. That we already did in the 80's. Not to save money but to skirt around shortages. Our company started worldwide sourcing. When I told our purchasing folks that I designed in a PIN diode and we'd have to buy the first 35,000 en bloc and from Malaysia they swallowed a bit but didn't think this was totally outlandish. A year earlier they would have thrown the book at me. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: krw on 7 Jun 2010 18:45 On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:46:23 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:29:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 14:29:08 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 14:02:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>>>>> Several manufacturers are apparently dumping these lines (CS10?). All but a >>>>>>>> few crystals (14.7456MHz, and such) are custom ordered. This one happens to >>>>>>>> be 12.0MHz. In reality it can be anything from 4-40MHz. We also use a >>>>>>>> 12.5MHz crystal in the product. I could easily use it, but with 12.7K in >>>>>>>> inventory there isn't any point. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When I did that with an inductor for a client a long time ago we looked >>>>>>>>> at it and it was "Wow, custom from Taiwan costs less than catalog from >>>>>>>>> the US". So they are still using that Taiwanese inductor. >>>>>>>> Yes, these crystals are from China, too. >>>>>>> If a certain type seems to get dropped you might want to ask around. In >>>>>>> China there always seems to be someone who keeps making older stuff. For >>>>>>> example, through-hole parts and single-sided phenolic are kicking and >>>>>>> alive over there. When you ask a board house about phenolic in the US >>>>>>> that can result in a blank stare ;-) >>>>>> Yeah, we have no trouble finding someone else. It's just some work showing >>>>>> that the new parts are really equivalent. It also takes 12 weeks (or more) to >>>>>> get the evaluation parts before useful quantities can be ordered (then another >>>>>> 12 weeks). >>>>> For a crystal? It's been a while but I could always get them in two >>>>> weeks if needed. In a real crunch within the same week. >>>> At one time, sure. No longer. >>>> >>>>> But yeah, China >>>>> tends to take longer and often the willingness to expedite drops down >>>>> when the supplier grows and takes on more important (a.k.a. bigger) >>>>> customers. Been there :-( >>>> Apparently these parts are only sourced in China, now. Even crystal >>>> oscillator lead times have slipped out that far and the disty can, under >>>> normal circumstances, program them. >>> >>> Hmm, putting my capitalist hat on (which I usually only take off at >>> night ...) all this opens numerous opportunities: >>> >>> a. A "good-old-days" type of service for crystals. >> > >If the bureacrats left manufacturers alone it wouldn't have to be that >way, at least not for higher end stuff. > > >> The problem here is that there isn't enough money in crystals anymore to make >> them worthwhile for anyone but the Chinese. >> >>> b. A futures trading system for components. With hedge contracts and the >>> whole nine yards. >> >> Isn't that what disties do? They have the added advantage of being fronted by >> some manufacturers. >> > >They are mostly just a sales outlet for the manufacturers. Typically >they don't do speculative buys. They do. That's why they have "in stock" > 0, on some parts. With other more expensive parts they're fronted (consignment, essentially).
From: Joerg on 7 Jun 2010 19:18 krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:46:23 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:29:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> [...] >>>> b. A futures trading system for components. With hedge contracts and the >>>> whole nine yards. >>> Isn't that what disties do? They have the added advantage of being fronted by >>> some manufacturers. >>> >> They are mostly just a sales outlet for the manufacturers. Typically >> they don't do speculative buys. > > They do. That's why they have "in stock" > 0, on some parts. With other more > expensive parts they're fronted (consignment, essentially). > Even large end customers have consignment deals. But usually when a part becomes scarce the lights go out pretty much everywhere. Disties do have stock beyond others on occasion but it's mostly not enough to avoid running dry. BT, many times :-( -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: krw on 7 Jun 2010 19:42 On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 16:18:58 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >> On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:46:23 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:29:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> > >[...] > >>>>> b. A futures trading system for components. With hedge contracts and the >>>>> whole nine yards. >>>> Isn't that what disties do? They have the added advantage of being fronted by >>>> some manufacturers. >>>> >>> They are mostly just a sales outlet for the manufacturers. Typically >>> they don't do speculative buys. >> >> They do. That's why they have "in stock" > 0, on some parts. With other more >> expensive parts they're fronted (consignment, essentially). >> > >Even large end customers have consignment deals. They don't have to be large. They keep some of our inventory, but that wasn't my point. >But usually when a part >becomes scarce the lights go out pretty much everywhere. Disties do have >stock beyond others on occasion but it's mostly not enough to avoid >running dry. BT, many times :-( They normally keep stock of the common parts, mostly passives, and some of them *are* getting scarce. Yes, if a part is scarce they aren't likely to have any either. ;-)
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E. on 7 Jun 2010 19:57
krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: [snip] > > Clueless, totally clueless. Well, you can sit in the dark in a state of depression because your party is out of power. The rest of the world carries on doing business. Look at the bright side: Mental health will be covered under Obamacare. -- Paul Hovnanian paul(a)hovnanian.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Have gnu, will travel. |