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From: MB on 30 Jan 2010 15:07
The message <jb3YaFBbHDZLFwK9(a)y.z>
from fred <not(a)for.mail> contains these words:

> In article <hjvgsq$n7h$1(a)news.albasani.net>, Lars Homestead
> <lars.homestead(a)sky.com> writes
> >"MB" <MB(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:31303030303731354B62FC7544(a)invalid.invalid...
> >> Argyllshire Advertiser
> >>
> >> http://www.argyllshireadvertiser.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/5889/Vodafone_prob
> >lems_for_customers_in_Tarbert.html
> >>
> >> Vodafone problems for customers in Tarbert
> >
> >Bastards, what about PAYG customers (that Vodafone promote PAYG) who can't
> >use their phones?
> >
> How about laying the blame on the people responsible for the problem,
> BT:

> "The problem with our site is that there is a link failure. This is
> managed by BT and we're currently waiting on them to fix the problem."


Would they leave the sites off if they were in a more lucrative area?
It is hard to imagine a fault that takes so long to rectify even a tower
collapse could be quickly rectified with a temporary one.

I could understand it with some of the other telecom companies that I
have dealt with but surprised that BT takes so long.
From: fred on 2 Feb 2010 09:59
In article <pd59m5dfmid8pipesdhkqfkupb11jtgvgo(a)4ax.com>, Scott
<spiced.porkandham(a)virgin.net> writes
>On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:19:23 +0000, fred <not(a)for.mail> wrote:
>
>>In article <hjvgsq$n7h$1(a)news.albasani.net>, Lars Homestead
>><lars.homestead(a)sky.com> writes
>>>"MB" <MB(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:31303030303731354B62FC7544(a)invalid.invalid...
>>>> Argyllshire Advertiser
>>>>
>>>> http://www.argyllshireadvertiser.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/5889/Vodafone_pr
>ob
>>>lems_for_customers_in_Tarbert.html
>>>>
>>>> Vodafone problems for customers in Tarbert
>>>
>>>Bastards, what about PAYG customers (that Vodafone promote PAYG) who
>can't
>>>use their phones?
>>>
>>How about laying the blame on the people responsible for the problem,
>>BT:
>>
>>"The problem with our site is that there is a link failure. This is
>>managed by BT and we're currently waiting on them to fix the problem."
>
>Legally, the consumer's contract is with the service provider and it
>is their responsibility to ensure performance of the contract. Any
>contract between the service provider and their suppliers is their
>problem to sort out.

And are you suggesting that makes Vodafone 'bastards' as the previous
posted described?

Quoting legal chapter and verse of the consumers' contract will not get
the service restored any quicker if there is no alternative provider for
the link to the main network.

If the report of the fault being in the BT operated link is correct then
it they who deserve the flak.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs
From: Scott on 2 Feb 2010 15:19
On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:59:16 +0000, fred <not(a)for.mail> wrote:

>In article <pd59m5dfmid8pipesdhkqfkupb11jtgvgo(a)4ax.com>, Scott
><spiced.porkandham(a)virgin.net> writes
>>On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:19:23 +0000, fred <not(a)for.mail> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <hjvgsq$n7h$1(a)news.albasani.net>, Lars Homestead
>>><lars.homestead(a)sky.com> writes
>>>>"MB" <MB(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>news:31303030303731354B62FC7544(a)invalid.invalid...
>>>>> Argyllshire Advertiser
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.argyllshireadvertiser.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/5889/Vodafone_pr
>>ob
>>>>lems_for_customers_in_Tarbert.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Vodafone problems for customers in Tarbert
>>>>
>>>>Bastards, what about PAYG customers (that Vodafone promote PAYG) who
>>can't
>>>>use their phones?
>>>>
>>>How about laying the blame on the people responsible for the problem,
>>>BT:
>>>
>>>"The problem with our site is that there is a link failure. This is
>>>managed by BT and we're currently waiting on them to fix the problem."
>>
>>Legally, the consumer's contract is with the service provider and it
>>is their responsibility to ensure performance of the contract. Any
>>contract between the service provider and their suppliers is their
>>problem to sort out.
>
>And are you suggesting that makes Vodafone 'bastards' as the previous
>posted described?

No, such a claim could be defamatory.
>
>Quoting legal chapter and verse of the consumers' contract will not get
>the service restored any quicker if there is no alternative provider for
>the link to the main network.

This depends on your view of the 'rule of law'. Personally, I would
say legal rights are quite an important part of civilised society.
>
>If the report of the fault being in the BT operated link is correct then
>it they who deserve the flak.

No, I don't agree. If I buy faulty goods from Tesco then Tesco sort
it out (as my contract is with Tesco) then Tesco can make a claim
against their supplier.
From: fred on 2 Feb 2010 17:56
In article <9r1hm5hln9lnonuakb0b873t2f0eku6u1u(a)4ax.com>, Scott
<spiced.porkandham(a)virgin.net> writes
>On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:59:16 +0000, fred <not(a)for.mail> wrote:
>
>>In article <pd59m5dfmid8pipesdhkqfkupb11jtgvgo(a)4ax.com>, Scott
>><spiced.porkandham(a)virgin.net> writes
>>>On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:19:23 +0000, fred <not(a)for.mail> wrote:
>>>
>>>>How about laying the blame on the people responsible for the problem,
>>>>BT:
>>>>
>>>>"The problem with our site is that there is a link failure. This is
>>>>managed by BT and we're currently waiting on them to fix the problem."
>>>
>>>Legally, the consumer's contract is with the service provider and it
>>>is their responsibility to ensure performance of the contract. Any
>>>contract between the service provider and their suppliers is their
>>>problem to sort out.
>>
>>Quoting legal chapter and verse of the consumers' contract will not get
>>the service restored any quicker if there is no alternative provider for
>>the link to the main network.
>
>This depends on your view of the 'rule of law'. Personally, I would
>say legal rights are quite an important part of civilised society.
>>
>>If the report of the fault being in the BT operated link is correct then
>>it they who deserve the flak.
>
>No, I don't agree. If I buy faulty goods from Tesco then Tesco sort
>it out (as my contract is with Tesco) then Tesco can make a claim
>against their supplier.

Legal remedies are no quick fix, suing Vodafone, even if successful wont
restore the service any quicker if the root cause is the failure of BT
to restore their link.

Using your retail sale analogy, if the manufacturer says they wont be
making another run of the product for six months then there is nothing
you can do to force the retailer to replace a product that is not
available, your sole remedy would be some kind of refund against the
purchase price of the goods.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs
From: Scott on 3 Feb 2010 03:45
On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:56:06 +0000, fred <not(a)for.mail> wrote:

>In article <9r1hm5hln9lnonuakb0b873t2f0eku6u1u(a)4ax.com>, Scott
><spiced.porkandham(a)virgin.net> writes
>>On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:59:16 +0000, fred <not(a)for.mail> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <pd59m5dfmid8pipesdhkqfkupb11jtgvgo(a)4ax.com>, Scott
>>><spiced.porkandham(a)virgin.net> writes
>>>>On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:19:23 +0000, fred <not(a)for.mail> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>How about laying the blame on the people responsible for the problem,
>>>>>BT:
>>>>>
>>>>>"The problem with our site is that there is a link failure. This is
>>>>>managed by BT and we're currently waiting on them to fix the problem."
>>>>
>>>>Legally, the consumer's contract is with the service provider and it
>>>>is their responsibility to ensure performance of the contract. Any
>>>>contract between the service provider and their suppliers is their
>>>>problem to sort out.
>>>
>>>Quoting legal chapter and verse of the consumers' contract will not get
>>>the service restored any quicker if there is no alternative provider for
>>>the link to the main network.
>>
>>This depends on your view of the 'rule of law'. Personally, I would
>>say legal rights are quite an important part of civilised society.
>>>
>>>If the report of the fault being in the BT operated link is correct then
>>>it they who deserve the flak.
>>
>>No, I don't agree. If I buy faulty goods from Tesco then Tesco sort
>>it out (as my contract is with Tesco) then Tesco can make a claim
>>against their supplier.
>
>Legal remedies are no quick fix, suing Vodafone, even if successful wont
>restore the service any quicker if the root cause is the failure of BT
>to restore their link.

I don't think anyone has ever suggested that legal remedies are a
quick fix. You go on about BT restoring their link, but have you
considered that there might be an alternative way of serving the mast
- satellite or by some temporary link? What would happen in a civil
emergency? Vodafone's remedy it seems to me is to set up an
alternative (if one exists) then make a claim for damages against BT
for breach of contract.
>
>Using your retail sale analogy, if the manufacturer says they wont be
>making another run of the product for six months then there is nothing
>you can do to force the retailer to replace a product that is not
>available, your sole remedy would be some kind of refund against the
>purchase price of the goods.

Suitable alternative product? Upgrade?
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