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From: Richard Henry on 6 Apr 2010 22:35 On Apr 5, 5:31 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My- Web-Site.com> wrote: > On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 18:52:49 -0500, > > hal-use...(a)ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) wrote: > >In article <hhnkr556m5pik6jrnhtg8io8950mk99...(a)4ax.com>, > > Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> writes: > >... > > >>It _will_ be painful to walk away from a country that my ancestors > >>settled, beginning 400+ years ago (Jamestown)... but I can if > >>pushed... leave the suckers with only themselves to suck upon :-) > > >Where would you go? > > I'd be welcome almost anywhere that needs _real_ engineering... > Israel, NZ, Hong Kong... I could even be a big hero in Russia or > mainland China :-) > So deep down, your patriotism is overwhelmed by your greed.
From: krw on 7 Apr 2010 00:16 On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:55:19 -0700 (PDT), brent <bulegoge(a)columbus.rr.com> wrote: >On Apr 6, 9:19�pm, "k...(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <k...(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> >wrote: >> On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 16:49:13 -0700 (PDT), brent <buleg...(a)columbus.rr.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >On Apr 6, 12:07�pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >> brent wrote: >> >> > On Apr 5, 9:17 pm, Jim Yanik <jya...(a)abuse.gov> wrote: >> >> >> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote innews:210lr5tsijq3libimsflq44s2cdauhtdla(a)4ax.com: >> >> >> >>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 18:52:49 -0500, >> >> >>> hal-use...(a)ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) wrote: >> >> >>>> In article <hhnkr556m5pik6jrnhtg8io8950mk99...(a)4ax.com>, >> >> >>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> writes: >> >> >>>> ... >> >> >>>>> It _will_ be painful to walk away from a country that my ancestors >> >> >>>>> settled, beginning 400+ years ago (Jamestown)... but I can if >> >> >>>>> pushed... leave the suckers with only themselves to suck upon :-) >> >> >>>> Where would you go? >> >> >>> I'd be welcome almost anywhere that needs _real_ engineering... >> >> >>> Israel, NZ, Hong Kong... I could even be a big hero in Russia or >> >> >>> mainland China :-) >> >> >>> � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � ...Jim Thompson >> >> >> I don't think you'd fit in in China,nor like being under the thumb of the >> >> >> kleptocrats of Russia,along with the Russian Mob influence. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Jim Yanik >> >> >> jyanik >> >> >> at >> >> >> localnet >> >> >> dot com >> >> >> > I agree with you. >> >> >> > I will go down with the ship, trying to do my small part to bail out >> >> > the mess. >> >> >> > The USA is still comprised of a hefty number of god fearing people. >> >> >> I think that's the right attitude. For me it's based on my religion, got >> >> to live with the government whether we like it or not, and got to pay >> >> the taxes whether we like it or not. There's nothing wrong with moving >> >> away if things become too much of a load but on the other hand we need >> >> to support what our country was built on. I just saw a long movie about >> >> the fighting for independence, based on what really happened back then. >> >> Pretty sobering, what those guys had to endure makes all this stuff >> >> today pale in comparison. >> >> >> -- >> >> Regards, Joerg >> >> >>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >> >> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> >> Use another domain or send PM. >> >> >I just realized you are originally from Holland. I assumed Germany. >> >Have you ever been to Western MI ? >> >> Western MI? �The UP? �Most from that area are Norwegan, Finnish, or Svedish >> decent. > >Western MI ( Grand Rapids, Holland ) is very Dutch. UP is more >Scandinavian, especially Finnish. Ah, mid-western Michigan. ;-) My parents were from the UP English/Norwegan and Finnish. ...and a lot of Svedes over der in Ironwood, ay.
From: dagmargoodboat on 7 Apr 2010 00:19 On Apr 6, 9:35 pm, Richard Henry <pomer...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 5, 5:31 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My- > > Web-Site.com> wrote: > > On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 18:52:49 -0500, > > > hal-use...(a)ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) wrote: > > >In article <hhnkr556m5pik6jrnhtg8io8950mk99...(a)4ax.com>, > > > Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> writes: > > >... > > > >>It _will_ be painful to walk away from a country that my ancestors > > >>settled, beginning 400+ years ago (Jamestown)... but I can if > > >>pushed... leave the suckers with only themselves to suck upon :-) > > > >Where would you go? > > > I'd be welcome almost anywhere that needs _real_ engineering... > > Israel, NZ, Hong Kong... I could even be a big hero in Russia or > > mainland China :-) > > So deep down, your patriotism is overwhelmed by your greed. Fleeing from people who want to take his stuff--without right--is greed? That's an odd definition of greed. -- Cheers, James Arthur
From: brent on 7 Apr 2010 05:01 On Apr 7, 12:16 am, "k...(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <k...(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: > On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:55:19 -0700 (PDT), brent <buleg...(a)columbus.rr.com> > wrote: > > > > >On Apr 6, 9:19 pm, "k...(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <k...(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> > >wrote: > >> On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 16:49:13 -0700 (PDT), brent <buleg...(a)columbus.rr.com> > >> wrote: > > >> >On Apr 6, 12:07 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> >> brent wrote: > >> >> > On Apr 5, 9:17 pm, Jim Yanik <jya...(a)abuse.gov> wrote: > >> >> >> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote innews:210lr5tsijq3libimsflq44s2cdauhtdla(a)4ax.com: > > >> >> >>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 18:52:49 -0500, > >> >> >>> hal-use...(a)ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) wrote: > >> >> >>>> In article <hhnkr556m5pik6jrnhtg8io8950mk99...(a)4ax.com>, > >> >> >>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> writes: > >> >> >>>> ... > >> >> >>>>> It _will_ be painful to walk away from a country that my ancestors > >> >> >>>>> settled, beginning 400+ years ago (Jamestown)... but I can if > >> >> >>>>> pushed... leave the suckers with only themselves to suck upon :-) > >> >> >>>> Where would you go? > >> >> >>> I'd be welcome almost anywhere that needs _real_ engineering... > >> >> >>> Israel, NZ, Hong Kong... I could even be a big hero in Russia or > >> >> >>> mainland China :-) > >> >> >>> ...Jim Thompson > >> >> >> I don't think you'd fit in in China,nor like being under the thumb of the > >> >> >> kleptocrats of Russia,along with the Russian Mob influence. > > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> Jim Yanik > >> >> >> jyanik > >> >> >> at > >> >> >> localnet > >> >> >> dot com > > >> >> > I agree with you. > > >> >> > I will go down with the ship, trying to do my small part to bail out > >> >> > the mess. > > >> >> > The USA is still comprised of a hefty number of god fearing people. > > >> >> I think that's the right attitude. For me it's based on my religion, got > >> >> to live with the government whether we like it or not, and got to pay > >> >> the taxes whether we like it or not. There's nothing wrong with moving > >> >> away if things become too much of a load but on the other hand we need > >> >> to support what our country was built on. I just saw a long movie about > >> >> the fighting for independence, based on what really happened back then. > >> >> Pretty sobering, what those guys had to endure makes all this stuff > >> >> today pale in comparison. > > >> >> -- > >> >> Regards, Joerg > > >> >>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > >> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >> >> Use another domain or send PM. > > >> >I just realized you are originally from Holland. I assumed Germany. > >> >Have you ever been to Western MI ? > > >> Western MI? The UP? Most from that area are Norwegan, Finnish, or Svedish > >> decent. > > >Western MI ( Grand Rapids, Holland ) is very Dutch. UP is more > >Scandinavian, especially Finnish. > > Ah, mid-western Michigan. ;-) My parents were from the UP English/Norwegan > and Finnish. ...and a lot of Svedes over der in Ironwood, ay. Ironwood is practically Wisconsin. Have you heard the old joke song "Rust and Smoke heater broke"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi8TACw1RR0 I'll bet not may people know that about 1 min into song they refer to negaunee which refers to Negaunne , MI which of course, is in the UP.
From: Bill Sloman on 7 Apr 2010 05:26
On Apr 7, 12:37 am, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Bill Slomanwrote: > > On Apr 6, 2:08 am, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Bill Slomanwrote: > >>> On Apr 5, 8:40 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>>> Joel Koltner wrote: > >>>>> This one's good too: > >>>>>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870397680457511424178200... > >>>> A _classic_ example of how the Laffer curve works. Bill, are ya lis'nin? > >>> A rather less than classic example. The tax hike was definitely on the > >>> low side of the Laffer Curve, so it - of itself - wouldn't have > >>> justified the victimns of the tax pulling up stakes. > >>> In fact it was a state tax, being applied to million dollar incomes. > >>> If you'd read the article, you'd have noted that most of the loss of > >>> revenue was due to the economic downturn, ... > >> It is rather easy to figure out the number of people who no longer file > >> in that state. Very easy, one just has to count. > > >>> ... and the rest the usual deal > >>> in which people who earn a million dollars find it worth their while > >>> to keep a tax expert on tap to reorganise their affairs, so some of > >>> them went to the trouble of moving their official place of residence > >>> to avoid the (local) tax. Since most people with this kind of money > >>> have several residences, this would have been just paper shuffling. > >> Nope. Doesn't work in the US. If you have one residence there they can > >> sock it to you. > > > I'm sure that - if you are paying enough taxes - it's worth selling > > that residence to a dummy corporation regstered in Antigua, and > > renting it back from them as an occasional vacation house. There's > > bound to be some legal work-around. > > Nope, not legal. In your opinion. > Not even if you rent. As for the substantial presence > test states have become quite the big brother. Because they are all > scrambling for money, money they often recklessly squandered. Now if you > changed your name from Bill Sloman to Boris Slomanskov you might get > away with it and can rent a car there, but only if you do that change in > some foreign country and erase all traces :-) Not all that difficult, considering the number of thoroughly corrupt foreign countries you have to choose from. > >> The only safe bet is to sell it. You have to be honest > >> with tax stuff, otherwise it can really backfire if for example some > >> court differs with you on the opinion where a primary residence was the > >> last few years. > > > Don't be naive. > > You don't know much about how that works, do ya? No more than you do. My younger brother - who is roughly an order of magnitude richer than I am - almost certainly knows people who do know exactly how that works. > >>> This isn't the Laffer Curve in action, its just incompetence on the > >>> part of the tax legislators, who wasted their time trying to get money > >>> from people who pay enough tax to justify keeping a tax avoidance > >>> expert on tap. > >> You just repeated the definition of the Laffer curve :-) > > > That's not the version of the Laffer Curve that fits onto a table > > napkin. Taxing very rich people is a whole different ball-game from > > collecting the bulk of the state's tax take, and trying to pretend > > that the Laffer Curve provides a useful insight into that particular > > ball-game demonstartes a singular weakness for over-generalisation. > > The underlying scheme and reaction is, with some modifications, always > similar. The similarity is of absolutely no practical use. > >>>> Oh, and don't expect body politicus to understand the Laffer curve :-) > >>> They do - it's just one more bit of right-wing economic nonsense > >>> devised to justify giving tax breaks to the rich. There's a whole > >>> branch of pseudo-economics devoted to generating this kind of > >>> justification, subsidised by the rich beneficiaries of those tax > >>> breaks, and you really should learn to recognise the genre; anything > >>> that is endorsed by the Heartland Institute is automatically suspect. > >> Except that people act very differently than you think. > > > You don't seem to know what I think. The surveys of the general > > population's attititudes to tax in more or less civilised countries > > show that most people think that the tax system is more or less fair, > > and they feel a moral obligation to pay. Greece and Italy aren't > > civilised countries in this context. > > So then, why do you think people like Keith move to Alabama? If Keith is krw, he's not an example of normal human behaviour. Who, in their right mind, would more to Alabama. George Wallace may be dead, but his spirit lingers on. > Believe me, > he is by far not the only one. And why are lots of academics from the > northern parts of Europe living in Switzerland? I wouldn't know. My wife does have academic colleagues who work there, and like the environment, but she hasn't been invited to apply for any jobs there and I don't think that she has been on any Swiss search committees. I doubt if the Laffer curve has much to do with it. > >> I know people who have moved to other places for tax reasons. > > > Just for tax reasons? > > Yes. > > >> In fact, at least one is > >> a regular in this newsgroup. They simply donned the snowboard and > >> scooted down the right side and off the Laffer curve. Maybe I am one as > >> well because I left NL for that reason. > > > There are lots of reasons for leaving the Netherlands. I'd certainly > > prefer to be someplace where more money was spent on original > > electronic design. I doubt if the tax regime was the only motivation > > in your case. > > It was. Otherwise I really liked it there, mostly because of the > multi-cultural environment. Heck, I even learned the language to full > fluency. Ok, "southern" Dutch, that is. > > >> You can lambast Heartland et > >> cetera all you want, people still listen and educate themselves. > > > They certainly listen, because Heartland tells them what they want to > > hear. This isn't education but flattery. Try and learn to tell the > > difference. > > If you pay attention you will realize that they are very often proven > right in the long run. If you believe their propaganda. > I vividly remember Rush Limbaugh, a guy you would > most likely despise, saying that the 50% pension increases for many > public employees in CA would ruin Californias budget completely. He was > lambasted from all corners for saying that. How could he? How could > anyone dare? This was to be revenue neutral because the stock market > would definitely sustain ... and blah, blah, blah. Well, his predictions > were _exactly_ on the money. Unfortunately, but predictably. The mortgage bubble burst and California's economy tanked. That makes Rush Limbaugh's prediction that it was going to tank because of a state employee pension increase "exactly on the money"? Do learn to think. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen |