Why against Stern-Gerlach experiment photons are said to be spin 1?
in [Physics]
|
Prev: Recent exchanges Sam Wormly, Uncle Al and johnreed
Next: STOP LHC. A call to reasonable people all over the world.
From: Igor on 1 Dec 2009 14:36 On Nov 29, 2:03 pm, cjcountess <cjcount...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Planck discovered E=hf, for photons > Einstein discovered E=mc^2, for electrons / matter > deBroglie discovered E=hf=mc^2, at level of electron, which has -1 > charge and that electron is also a wave. Everything you've just stated is correct, although I know you fail to understand what it actually means. > This indicates a smooth > transition from energy to matter, along the same EM spectrum, which > can also be considered the energy/matter spectrum, as well as the > electromagnetic spectrum. Yes, and...? > Bohr discovered that wavelength of electron is equal to circumference > of circle, with an angular momentum of a multiple integer of h/2pi. > Therefore it follows from this and geometrical evidence that I > presented that, (E=mc^2) = (E=mc^circled) and c = (sqrt -1) > c^2 or c in linear direction x c in 90 degree angular direction > creates a 90 degree arc trajectory, which if constant creates a circle > of energy, with an angular momentum = (h/2pi, and wavelength being > inversely proportional, = (hx2pi). This is hilarious. What about mc^triangled? At least it would have a more solid mathematical base. How do you circle a number, nitwit? And the rest of is even more bizarre. Learn some actual physics. I told you to study conservation laws. Apparently, you didn't learn anything and so you're cursed to repeat your same ridiculous mistakes.
From: Uncle Al on 28 Nov 2009 18:42 Salmon Egg wrote: > > In article <4B11844D.7BFFB013(a)hate.spam.net>, > Uncle Al <UncleAl0(a)hate.spam.net> wrote: > > > idiot > > C'mon Uncle Al. I used to think of you as Cyrano de Bererac with sharper > rapiers than a mere "idiot." Don't use a thermonuke when a whooppee cushion will suffice. Recycle! Uncle Al, which is to say "CURRENT RESIDENT," received a vital missive from the Irvine Unified School District. Massive renovation of woefully obsolete middle school facilities would be borne upon a deluge of taxpayer wallets. Perhaps a City Councilcritter wanted a new Cadillac SUV Cumshaw with extra bloat. Adjacent residents' brief inconvenience - forty years of construction traffic, smoke by day, fire by night, and window-cracking recorded salsa on weekends commencing at 0600 hrs - was granted a special variance by the City of Irvine. The letter said it was all OK. A thousand or three peripheral residents could complain by letter if it were not OK. Dear Sir: I received IUSD's 24 November "CURRENT RESIDENT" letter bearing $0.44 postage, an envelope, two sheets of paper, and a staple plus labor costs and amortized overhead (cc: 33 congenitally inconsequential poobahs and the "Irvine World News" requiring that second page). IUSD burned my tax money. Send postcards. IUSD is a politicized excrescence. IUSD hemorrhages bureaucratic process and bloated cynosure employment while disgorging product scarcely fit to flip burgers. IUSD prattles equal opportunity and diversity, sparing no taxpayer expense to coddle genetic, somatic, and behavioral garbage. The Severely and Profoundly Gifted are crushed, disseminated amidst bovine confreres, and dissipated. Rather than foster brilliance, IUSD allocates for its suppression. IUSD is a confluence of overwhelming ignorance with overweening arrogance. I am intolerant of those who proudly perpetuate rigorous characterization of the topology and function of cluelessness. "...creating the best possible learning environment for our students..." My expectations for fresh tiger striping, Braille water fountains, and Web-interfaced hydraulic wheelchair lifts with quarterly statistical other-ablement compliance reportage are very high. IUSD process fluid is chiefly Caucasian, Asian, and East Indian. Do something useful with it other than warehousing potential organ donors. Cordially, 1) East Indians are obviously porcine not bovine. Cultural sensitivity matters! 2) USPS adhesive undergoes cryogenic failure, Tg and all that. It was worth sending via the uncancelled stamp from another letter. 3) idiots -- Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm
From: Jarek Duda on 4 Dec 2009 17:55 On 27 Lis, 17:31, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Translating what I said into the terms you used here: Since spin is > modeled DIFFERENTLY from angular momentum in QFT, they are different > aspects of a system. As I have said several times, spin is INTRINSIC to > a particle, but angular momentum is not -- that's QUITE DIFFERENT, in > both classical and quantum theories. In QFT, spin is modeled with a > definite-spin representation of the Lorentz group, but angular momentum > is modeled with eigenfunctions of the angular momentum operator -- > that's QUITE DIFFERENT. Yes - that's quite different. Does free (not moving) electron have angular momentum? I don't think so ... Photons created while deexcitation usually have angular momentum ... but is it so for all photons? Could You really imagine that interacting with electric field is really made by continuous stream of photons having angular momentum? If I would only looked at the cited text, I would think that we agree - photons can carry angular momentum (twist of continuous parameter), while electrons have spin (being integer multiplicity) ... Darwin.... Intuitively, topological point of view is distinguishing objects only when they cannot be continuously deformed one into another. For example Mobius strip You mentioned ... imagine such strip which makes the whole internal rotation, not half like Mobius strip - these two structures would be topologically distinguishable. We see that for topology there are characteristic integer multiplicities, like the number of internal half-rotations. Another characteristic properties are conservation laws - for examample such strip with multiple internal half-rotation can deform, but this integer number has to remain unchanged. We can meet precisely this example in prokaryota DNA - there is used special enzyme (topoisomerase) to release such internal stress. Returning to the field of nonzero vectors, only looking at spin/charge conservation, that to destroy one it has to meet with opposite one, that they appears in integer multiplicities ... strongly suggests that they have topological nature ...
From: Jarek Duda on 4 Dec 2009 17:55 On 27 Lis, 17:31, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Translating what I said into the terms you used here: Since spin is > modeled DIFFERENTLY from angular momentum in QFT, they are different > aspects of a system. As I have said several times, spin is INTRINSIC to > a particle, but angular momentum is not -- that's QUITE DIFFERENT, in > both classical and quantum theories. In QFT, spin is modeled with a > definite-spin representation of the Lorentz group, but angular momentum > is modeled with eigenfunctions of the angular momentum operator -- > that's QUITE DIFFERENT. Yes - that's quite different. Does free (not moving) electron have angular momentum? I don't think so ... Photons created while deexcitation usually have angular momentum ... but is it so for all photons? Could You really imagine that interacting with electric field is really made by continuous stream of photons having angular momentum? If I would only looked at the cited text, I would think that we agree - photons can carry angular momentum (twist of continuous parameter), while electrons have spin (being integer multiplicity) ... Darwin.... Intuitively, topological point of view is distinguishing objects only when they cannot be continuously deformed one into another. For example Mobius strip You mentioned ... imagine such strip which makes the whole internal rotation, not half like Mobius strip - these two structures would be topologically distinguishable. We see that for topology there are characteristic integer multiplicities, like the number of internal half-rotations. Another characteristic properties are conservation laws - for examample such strip with multiple internal half-rotation can deform, but this integer number has to remain unchanged. We can meet precisely this example in prokaryota DNA - there is used special enzyme (topoisomerase) to release such internal stress. Returning to the field of nonzero vectors, only looking at spin/charge conservation, that to destroy one it has to meet with opposite one, that they appears in integer multiplicities ... strongly suggests that they have topological nature ...
From: Tom Roberts on 6 Dec 2009 11:59
Jarek Duda wrote: > On 27 Lis, 17:31, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> Translating what I said into the terms you used here: Since spin is >> modeled DIFFERENTLY from angular momentum in QFT, they are different >> aspects of a system. As I have said several times, spin is INTRINSIC to >> a particle, but angular momentum is not -- that's QUITE DIFFERENT, in >> both classical and quantum theories. In QFT, spin is modeled with a >> definite-spin representation of the Lorentz group, but angular momentum >> is modeled with eigenfunctions of the angular momentum operator -- >> that's QUITE DIFFERENT. > > Yes - that's quite different. > Does free (not moving) electron have angular momentum? I don't think > so ... Of course it does. The value of angular momentum depends on the point around which you calculate it; classically any moving object has nonzero angular momentum around any point not directly in line with its velocity. Quantum mechanically, a free electron is modeled as a plane wave, which when expanded in terms of angular momentum eigenfunctions has a nonzero amplitude for every term in the infinite series (this is true for any point used as the origin, and for any value of momentum, including zero). > Returning to the field of nonzero vectors, only looking at spin/charge > conservation, that to destroy one it has to meet with opposite one, > that they appears in integer multiplicities ... strongly suggests that > they have topological nature ... Whether or not elementary particles are related to topological defects is an open question that is directly related to modern attempts to formulate a theory of quantum gravity. No success so far. But the "topological defect" due to spin would be a line, not a point, and is not observed for particles. There is more going on than just spin.... Tom Roberts |