Win Hill: Inverse Marx Generator ??
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From: Jim Thompson on 11 Jul 2010 22:38 On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 11:32:59 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:34:23 -0700 (PDT), Richard Henry ><pomerado(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >>On Jul 11, 8:46�am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My- >>Web-Site.com> wrote: >>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:07:22 -0700, John Larkin >>> >>> >>> >>> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 11:35:35 -0400, "tm" <no...(a)msc.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>"John Larkin" <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message >>> >>news:o61h36lt8fvhsc00mrc9824ju0jd4hml8s(a)4ax.com... >>> >>> >>> To celebrate the 21st century, I have composed a new riddle: >>> >>> >>> Start with a 4 farad cap charged to 0.5 volts. �Q = 2 coulombs. >>> >>> >>> Carefully saw it in half, without discharging it, such as to have two >>> >>> caps, each 2 farads, each charged to 0.5 volts. The total charge of >>> >>> the two caps remains 2 coulombs, whether you connect them in parallel >>> >>> or consider them separately. >>> >>> >>> Now stack them in series. The result is a 1F cap charged to 1 volt. >>> >>> That has a charge of 1 coulomb. Where did the other coulomb go? >>> >>> >>> I think this is a better riddle. >>> >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>One should not confuse charge with energy. >>> >>> >Exactly the point I've been making. Some EEs seem to think that charge >>> >is always conserved. Some physicists seem to think that energy is >>> >always conserved. They can't both be right. >>> >>> >I'll side with the physicists on this one. >>> >>> >John >>> >>> "Side" with whomever you like. �But both "laws" apply simultaneously. >>> >>Energy is always conserved. >> >>Charge gets moved around. Whether you find it to be "conserved" or >>not depends on where you look for it. > >Right. "Conservation of charge" in an electronic circuit has to be >cited under exactly specified conditions. In some circuits, it makes >no sense at all, so it should only be used carefully. > >I can extract all the energy from one cap and dump it into another one >such that the summed charge of both caps is not conserved. > >John > Which ducks the phrase "conservation of charge". The keywords are "charge converter", "time to charge" and "time to discharge" :-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Obama isn't going to raise your taxes...it's Bush' fault: Not re- newing the Bush tax cuts will increase the bottom tier rate by 50%
From: JosephKK on 11 Jul 2010 23:00 On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:40:56 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam(a)nowhere.com> wrote: > > >John Larkin wrote: > >> On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:59:51 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky >> <nospam(a)nowhere.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>John Larkin wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>I'm an engineer. I design circuits. Philosophy is useless to me unless >>>>it allows me to quantify and measure things and predict what the >>>>numbers will mean. >>> >>>Yea, this is what good soldier Schweik used to say: >>> >>>"When a car runs out of gas, it stops. Even after been faced with this >>>obvious fact, they dare to talk about momentum". >>> >>> >> >> >> If Schweik has emptied the clip of his machine gun into you, you >> mostly likely would have died, and his philosophy would have worked >> better than yours. > >The philosophy can't stop a bullet, however it helps staying away from >the places where the bullets are whistling. > >> As an engineer, I use the theories that involve measurable phenomena >> and subsequently make electronics work, and avoid the ones that don't. > >As an engineer, you should know that machine guns don't use clips. > >VLV Which subset of machine guns are you talking about? Heard of AK47 or Uzi or M16?
From: Jim Thompson on 11 Jul 2010 23:01 On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 19:38:07 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 11:32:59 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > [snip] >> >>I can extract all the energy from one cap and dump it into another one >>such that the summed charge of both caps is not conserved. >> >>John >> > >Which ducks the phrase "conservation of charge". > >The keywords are "charge converter", "time to charge" and "time to >discharge" :-) > > As in, for example, a Cuk converter. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Obama isn't going to raise your taxes...it's Bush' fault: Not re- newing the Bush tax cuts will increase the bottom tier rate by 50%
From: UltimatePatriot on 11 Jul 2010 23:12 On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 20:00:25 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:40:56 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky ><nospam(a)nowhere.com> wrote: > >> >> >>John Larkin wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:59:51 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky >>> <nospam(a)nowhere.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>>John Larkin wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I'm an engineer. I design circuits. Philosophy is useless to me unless >>>>>it allows me to quantify and measure things and predict what the >>>>>numbers will mean. >>>> >>>>Yea, this is what good soldier Schweik used to say: >>>> >>>>"When a car runs out of gas, it stops. Even after been faced with this >>>>obvious fact, they dare to talk about momentum". >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> If Schweik has emptied the clip of his machine gun into you, you >>> mostly likely would have died, and his philosophy would have worked >>> better than yours. >> >>The philosophy can't stop a bullet, however it helps staying away from >>the places where the bullets are whistling. >> >>> As an engineer, I use the theories that involve measurable phenomena >>> and subsequently make electronics work, and avoid the ones that don't. >> >>As an engineer, you should know that machine guns don't use clips. >> >>VLV > >Which subset of machine guns are you talking about? Heard of AK47 or Uzi >or M16? Those are "automatic rifles". They are what is a subset of 'machine gun'.
From: John Larkin on 11 Jul 2010 23:35
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 19:34:13 -0700 (PDT), kevin93 <kevin(a)whitedigs.com> wrote: >On Jul 11, 2:27�pm, John Larkin ><jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:47:02 -0500, John Fields >... >> It's conserved in some circuits, such as caps and resistances in >> series with no shunt paths, like Jim's ancient riddle (or is it >> ancient Jim's riddle?) It's not conserved in other cases, like my >> inductive energy transfer example, or when you just plain discharge a >> cap through a resistor. >... >> >> John > >Are you meaning the scenario with an inductor connecting two >capacitors? Total cap charge is preserved in that case, since the current history of all the caps in series must be the same. > >In that case the total charge on the two capacitors will be constant - >it has to be. The integral of the current out of one cap is the same >as the integral into the other. The only way for it to be different >is if there is a connection to the other side of the capacitors. > >If you add a switch (or just a diode) you can stop the process when >maximum energy has been transferred to the second capacitor - this has >been used for many decades in pulse RADAR systems to charge the pulse >forming network. > >I agree with you that it is not at all accurate to just quote the >"Charge is conserved mantra" but in some situations it will be true. > >kevin My example was dumping one charged cap into an inductor, then connecting the inductor to a discharged, different-sized cap. All the energy can be transferred from C1 to C2, but the charge will change. John |