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in [Physics]
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From: glird on 23 Dec 2009 16:51 On Dec 22, 5:03 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >< We need some type of relative speed of any Observer with respect to the water definition. The light travels from A to M at w-v and from B to M at w+v, where v is the velocity of the embankment with respect to the water. > Excellent! (Especially because some would object that "v is the velocity of the WATER with respect to the EMBANKMENT!")\ If any do, tell them that as of 1905 ALL velocities are relative to the observer, so there is no such thing as an absolutely stationary embankment, gl
From: mpc755 on 23 Dec 2009 17:31 On Dec 23, 3:17 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > >On Dec 22, 7:30 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > >wrote: > >> mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> >The light travels from A to M at w-v and from B to M at w+v, where v > >> >is the velocity of the embankment with respect to the water. > > >> Wrong. > > >> From:http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/EonFizeau.html(whichyou > >> yourself supplied, so you had to have read it already): > > >> Does light in a moving liquid move according to: > > >> (A) W = w + v [Gallilean] > > >> or > > >> (B) W = (w + v) / (1 + wv/cc). [Lorenzian] > > >> ? > > >> "Now, Fizeau's experiment gave the results expressed by > > >> (C) W = w + v(1 - ww/cc). > > >> Thus, (A) is refuted by (C) and the relativistic account is in > >> conformity with the results, to the same order of approximation as > >> Fizeau's formula (46). " > > >> (C) is (B) with an approximation that wv/c^2 is small compared to 1. > >Correct. > > I'm glad you agree, however it appears that almost all your posts assume > u = v + w when at least one of v and w are relativistic speeds, and this is > long known to be false. Any of your claims that assume such are false, > GIGO. > > [snip unrelated claim that aether pressure slows time or something] "Light travels in a motionless liquid with a particular velocity w. ... The liquid above mentioned is flowing through the tube with a velocity v." The wave a pebble makes when dropped into a motionless liquid travels with a particular velocity p. A pebble is dropped into the middle of a river upstream. You are in the middle of the river downstream. The wave the pebble created in the water reaches you. The wave the pebble makes has traveled at p with respect to the water to reach you and the wave the pebble makes has traveled at p + v relative to the embankment to reach you. The fact remains the wave the pebble made travels through the water with particular velocity p. A flash of light occurs in the middle of a river upstream. You are in the middle of the river downstream. The light wave the flash creates in the water reaches you. The light wave the flash makes has traveled at w with respect to the water to reach you and the light wave the flash makes has traveled at w + v relative to the embankment to reach you. The fact remains the light wave the flash made travels through the water with the particular velocity w. A flash of light occurs in the middle of a vacuum on the surface of the Earth. The aether entrained by the Earth is at rest with respect to the Earth. You are in the vacuum moving towards the flash of light. You are moving with particular velocity v relative to the Earth. The light wave the flash makes reaches you. The light wave the flash makes has traveled at c with respect to the aether to reach you and the light wave the flash makes has traveled at c + v in respect to your velocity relative to the Earth. Factoring you in is the closing velocity with respect to the light. The fact remains the flash traveled at c with respect to the aether.
From: mpc755 on 23 Dec 2009 17:48 On Dec 23, 5:31 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 23, 3:17 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > wrote: > > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > >On Dec 22, 7:30 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > >wrote: > > >> mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > >> >The light travels from A to M at w-v and from B to M at w+v, where v > > >> >is the velocity of the embankment with respect to the water. > > > >> Wrong. > > > >> From:http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/EonFizeau.html(whichyou > > >> yourself supplied, so you had to have read it already): > > > >> Does light in a moving liquid move according to: > > > >> (A) W = w + v [Gallilean] > > > >> or > > > >> (B) W = (w + v) / (1 + wv/cc). [Lorenzian] > > > >> ? > > > >> "Now, Fizeau's experiment gave the results expressed by > > > >> (C) W = w + v(1 - ww/cc). > > > >> Thus, (A) is refuted by (C) and the relativistic account is in > > >> conformity with the results, to the same order of approximation as > > >> Fizeau's formula (46). " > > > >> (C) is (B) with an approximation that wv/c^2 is small compared to 1. > > >Correct. > > > I'm glad you agree, however it appears that almost all your posts assume > > u = v + w when at least one of v and w are relativistic speeds, and this is > > long known to be false. Any of your claims that assume such are false, > > GIGO. > > > [snip unrelated claim that aether pressure slows time or something] > > "Light travels in a motionless liquid with a particular velocity > w. ... The liquid above mentioned is flowing through the tube with a > velocity v." > > The wave a pebble makes when dropped into a motionless liquid travels > with a particular velocity p. A pebble is dropped into the middle of a > river upstream. You are in the middle of the river downstream. The > wave the pebble created in the water reaches you. The wave the pebble > makes has traveled at p with respect to the water to reach you and the > wave the pebble makes has traveled at p + v relative to the embankment > to reach you. The fact remains the wave the pebble made travels > through the water with particular velocity p. > > A flash of light occurs in the middle of a river upstream. You are in > the middle of the river downstream. The light wave the flash creates > in the water reaches you. The light wave the flash makes has traveled > at w with respect to the water to reach you and the light wave the > flash makes has traveled at w + v relative to the embankment to reach > you. The fact remains the light wave the flash made travels through > the water with the particular velocity w. > > A flash of light occurs in the middle of a vacuum on the surface of > the Earth. The aether entrained by the Earth is at rest with respect > to the Earth. You are in the vacuum moving towards the flash of light. > You are moving with particular velocity v relative to the Earth. The > light wave the flash makes reaches you. The light wave the flash makes > has traveled at c with respect to the aether to reach you and the > light wave the flash makes has traveled at c + v in respect to your > velocity relative to the Earth. Factoring you in is the closing > velocity with respect to the light. [The fact remains the light wave the flash made travels through the aether with the particular velocity c.] Modification: The fact remains the light wave the flash made travels through the aether with the particular velocity c.
From: Michael Moroney on 23 Dec 2009 18:02 mpc755 <mpc755(a)gmail.com> writes: >On Dec 23, 3:17 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) >wrote: >> >> (C) is (B) with an approximation that wv/c^2 is small compared to 1. >> >Correct. >> >> I'm glad you agree, however it appears that almost all your posts assume >> u = v + w when at least one of v and w are relativistic speeds, and this is >> long known to be false. Any of your claims that assume such are false, >> GIGO. >> >> [snip unrelated claim that aether pressure slows time or something] >"Light travels in a motionless liquid with a particular velocity >w. ... The liquid above mentioned is flowing through the tube with a >velocity v." Now, read the rest of it. >The wave a pebble makes when dropped into a motionless liquid travels >with a particular velocity p. A pebble is dropped into the middle of a >river upstream. .... Pebble waves and rivers move nonrelativisticly, so this is correct, but irrelevant. >A flash of light occurs in the middle of a river upstream. You are in >the middle of the river downstream. The light wave the flash creates >in the water reaches you. The light wave the flash makes has traveled >at w with respect to the water to reach you and the light wave the >flash makes has traveled at w + v relative to the embankment to reach >you. Wrong. The light reaches you at velocity W = (v+w)/(1+vw/c^2) since w is a relativistic speed (0.75 c in water). You'd know this if you read Einstein's comments on the Fizeau Experiment. (So why did you say "correct" earlier?) Since your statements are all based on this incorrect statement, it's GIGO.
From: mpc755 on 23 Dec 2009 18:18
On Dec 23, 6:02 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > >On Dec 23, 3:17 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > >wrote: > >> >> (C) is (B) with an approximation that wv/c^2 is small compared to 1.. > >> >Correct. > > >> I'm glad you agree, however it appears that almost all your posts assume > >> u = v + w when at least one of v and w are relativistic speeds, and this is > >> long known to be false. Any of your claims that assume such are false, > >> GIGO. > > >> [snip unrelated claim that aether pressure slows time or something] > >"Light travels in a motionless liquid with a particular velocity > >w. ... The liquid above mentioned is flowing through the tube with a > >velocity v." > > Now, read the rest of it. > > >The wave a pebble makes when dropped into a motionless liquid travels > >with a particular velocity p. A pebble is dropped into the middle of a > >river upstream. > > ... > > Pebble waves and rivers move nonrelativisticly, so this is correct, > but irrelevant. > > >A flash of light occurs in the middle of a river upstream. You are in > >the middle of the river downstream. The light wave the flash creates > >in the water reaches you. The light wave the flash makes has traveled > >at w with respect to the water to reach you and the light wave the > >flash makes has traveled at w + v relative to the embankment to reach > >you. > > Wrong. The light reaches you at velocity W = (v+w)/(1+vw/c^2) since w > is a relativistic speed (0.75 c in water). > You'd know this if you read Einstein's comments on the Fizeau Experiment. > (So why did you say "correct" earlier?) > > Since your statements are all based on this incorrect statement, it's > GIGO. A flash of light occurs in the middle of a vacuum on the surface of the Earth. The aether entrained by the Earth is at rest with respect to the Earth. You are in the vacuum moving towards the flash of light. You are moving with a relativistic velocity relative to the Earth. The light wave the flash makes reaches you. The light wave the flash makes has traveled at c with respect to the aether to reach you and the light wave the flash makes has traveled at c + your relativistic velocity relative to the Earth. Factoring you in is the closing velocity with respect to the light. The fact remains the flash traveled at c with respect to the aether. |