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in [Physics]
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From: Inertial on 22 Dec 2009 17:58 <paparios(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:da12e4ea-4256-4e5a-b9bb-cf0a0fe468a9(a)n38g2000yqf.googlegroups.com... > On 22 dic, 12:40, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Dec 22, 8:29 am, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> Yes, I have dropped pebbles into water and what occurs is the wave >> propagates outward in all directions at the same speed with respect to >> the water. > > NO, you have to repeat that experiment again. > > The wave sure is not propagating with respect to the water!!! The statement was correct .. the speed of propagation of the water waves is the same with respect to the water. > That is > total nonsense. No > It is propagating on expanding circles, with respect to the hit point > of the pebble. Not 'with respect to' .. centered around would be better. Even better "concentric expanding circles with their centre at the hit point of the pebble relative to the water". The speed of those waves is the same relative to the water. If the water is flowing, then the waves are NOT concentric on the original hit point. The circle centre moves with the water, leaving the pebble behind.
From: Michael Moroney on 22 Dec 2009 19:30 mpc755 <mpc755(a)gmail.com> writes: >The light travels from A to M at w-v and from B to M at w+v, where v >is the velocity of the embankment with respect to the water. Wrong. From: http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/EonFizeau.html (which you yourself supplied, so you had to have read it already): Does light in a moving liquid move according to: (A) W = w + v [Gallilean] or (B) W = (w + v) / (1 + wv/cc). [Lorenzian] ? "Now, Fizeau's experiment gave the results expressed by (C) W = w + v(1 - ww/cc). Thus, (A) is refuted by (C) and the relativistic account is in conformity with the results, to the same order of approximation as Fizeau's formula (46). " (C) is (B) with an approximation that wv/c^2 is small compared to 1.
From: mpc755 on 22 Dec 2009 20:44 On Dec 22, 5:58 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:da12e4ea-4256-4e5a-b9bb-cf0a0fe468a9(a)n38g2000yqf.googlegroups.com... > > > On 22 dic, 12:40, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Dec 22, 8:29 am, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Yes, I have dropped pebbles into water and what occurs is the wave > >> propagates outward in all directions at the same speed with respect to > >> the water. > > > NO, you have to repeat that experiment again. > > > The wave sure is not propagating with respect to the water!!! > > The statement was correct .. the speed of propagation of the water waves is > the same with respect to the water. > > > That is > > total nonsense. > > No > > > It is propagating on expanding circles, with respect to the hit point > > of the pebble. > > Not 'with respect to' .. centered around would be better. Even better > "concentric expanding circles with their centre at the hit point of the > pebble relative to the water". The speed of those waves is the same > relative to the water. > > If the water is flowing, then the waves are NOT concentric on the original > hit point. The circle centre moves with the water, leaving the pebble > behind. Correct. And the same is true for water which is at rest with respect to the embankment. The waves created by a pebble dropped at A/A' propagate outward relative to the water which is at rest with respect to the embankment. This means the waves created by a pebble dropped at A/A' propagate outward relative to A which is at rest with respect to the water. And the same is true for light waves. The light waves created by a flash at A/A' propagate outward relative to the water which is at rest with respect to the embankment. This means the light waves created by the flash at A/A' propagate outward relative to A which is at rest with respect to the water.
From: mpc755 on 22 Dec 2009 20:48 On Dec 22, 7:30 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > >The light travels from A to M at w-v and from B to M at w+v, where v > >is the velocity of the embankment with respect to the water. > > Wrong. > > From:http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/EonFizeau.html(which you > yourself supplied, so you had to have read it already): > > Does light in a moving liquid move according to: > > (A) W = w + v [Gallilean] > > or > > (B) W = (w + v) / (1 + wv/cc). [Lorenzian] > > ? > > "Now, Fizeau's experiment gave the results expressed by > > (C) W = w + v(1 - ww/cc). > > Thus, (A) is refuted by (C) and the relativistic account is in > conformity with the results, to the same order of approximation as > Fizeau's formula (46). " > > (C) is (B) with an approximation that wv/c^2 is small compared to 1. Correct. Because the aether pressure associated with the medium moving with respect to the aether is greater than it is for the medium at rest with respect to the aether. The aether is entrained by the Earth. An experiment performed near the surface of the Earth can be considered to be performed at aether which is at rest, or almost at rest with respect to the Earth. The moving medium is displacing more aether than the medium at rest. The more displaced aether, the more aether pushing back, the greater the aether pressure, the slower clocks 'tick'.
From: mpc755 on 22 Dec 2009 20:56
On Dec 22, 8:44 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 22, 5:58 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > > > > > <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:da12e4ea-4256-4e5a-b9bb-cf0a0fe468a9(a)n38g2000yqf.googlegroups.com.... > > > > On 22 dic, 12:40, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On Dec 22, 8:29 am, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Yes, I have dropped pebbles into water and what occurs is the wave > > >> propagates outward in all directions at the same speed with respect to > > >> the water. > > > > NO, you have to repeat that experiment again. > > > > The wave sure is not propagating with respect to the water!!! > > > The statement was correct .. the speed of propagation of the water waves is > > the same with respect to the water. > > > > That is > > > total nonsense. > > > No > > > > It is propagating on expanding circles, with respect to the hit point > > > of the pebble. > > > Not 'with respect to' .. centered around would be better. Even better > > "concentric expanding circles with their centre at the hit point of the > > pebble relative to the water". The speed of those waves is the same > > relative to the water. > > > If the water is flowing, then the waves are NOT concentric on the original > > hit point. The circle centre moves with the water, leaving the pebble > > behind. > > Correct. And the same is true for water which is at rest with respect > to the embankment. The waves created by a pebble dropped at A/A' > propagate outward relative to the water which is at rest with respect > to the embankment. This means the waves created by a pebble dropped at > A/A' propagate outward relative to A which is at rest with respect to > the water. > > And the same is true for light waves. The light waves created by a > flash at A/A' propagate outward relative to the water which is at rest > with respect to the embankment. This means the light waves created by > the flash at A/A' propagate outward relative to A which is at rest > with respect to the water. You are staring down at water at rest. Directly below you, you see A at the bottom of the water. Off in the distance you see A' approaching A. You time it so the pebble hits the water when A and A' exist at the same point in space. The waves propagate outward with A always remaining at the center. You are staring down at water at rest. Directly below you, you see A at the bottom of the water. Between you and A is a small flash bulb. Off in the distance you see A' approaching A. You time it so the flash occurs when A and A' exist at the same point in space. The light waves propagate outward with A always remaining at the center. You are in a vacuum staring down. Directly below you, you see A on the floor. The aether is at rest with respect to A. Between you and A is a small flash bulb. Off in the distance you see A' approaching A. You time it so the flash occurs when A and A' exist at the same point in space. The light waves propagate outward with A always remaining at the center. |