Wonderful!
in [Physics]
|
From: mpc755 on 29 Dec 2009 14:27 On Dec 29, 2:25 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > >On Dec 29, 12:52=A0pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Dec 29, 12:40=A0pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > A gedanken is not an experiment. As I said, what you need is an > >> > experimental set-up where AD and special relativity make DIFFERENT > >> > predictions, so we can see which one is correct. > >Let's take this to the next step and actually perform the modified > >Einstein train gedanken in water. In SR, since the state of the medium > >the light travels through is not taken into consideration, when the > >light from the lightning strikes in the water at A/A' and B/B' reach > >M', the Observer at M' concludes the lightning strikes were not > >simultaneous. > >In AD, the state of the medium the light travels through is taken into > >consideration and when the light from the lightning strikes in the > >water reach the Observer at M', the Observer at M' concludes the > >lightning strikes at A/A' and B/B' were simultaneous. > > Good. You realize that if Theory A predicts Outcome X for an experiment > and if Theory B predicts a different Outcome Y for an experiment, the way > to tell which one is correct is to actually perform the experiment and > look at the results. This is what science is. > > >Is the Observer at M' who does not take into consideration the state > >of the water correct, or is the Observer at M' who does take into > >consideration the state of the water correct? > >The Observer at M' who takes into consideration the state of the water > >is correct. > > Whoops! You jumped to a conclusion without actually performing the > experiment, or citing a similar experiment. Fail. If Einstein's train gedanken is performed in water at rest with respect to the embankment and the light from the lightning strikes in the water at A/A' and B/B' arrive at M simultaneously, does the Observer at M' conclude the lightning strikes in the water at A/A' and B/B' were simultaneous, or not? You have a problem answering a simple question when it does not fit the dogma you choose to believe in. From the original intent of this thread, all I can say is, you are making my point.
From: spudnik on 29 Dec 2009 14:46 garbage up; garbage back down. like I said, Minkowski couldn't take-back his spiel about phase-space. thus: in California, primarily the gangs constitute the only militia, per the second amendment (you can look-up the case-law on that, a digest re the Constitution on Lexis-Nexis, where it is pretty clear that the "right to bear arms" includes the wearing of long-sleeved shirts; likewise, it exposes the liberal-media-owned-by-consWervatives silliness, where they always confuse "separation of church & state" with the foundational dysestablishmentarianism in A#1 -- yeah, they really, always do that, cuz TJ said the six words !-) so, what is this remarkable Madison/Marx patrimony, that we exist under?... of course, they were contemporaries, and Marx actually supported Henry Clay, for a while, til he was subverted by The Veiled Librarian at the British Library, in London. and, here, you can look-up the past publications where this stuff was put, in *The Campaigner* magazine (it is no-longer called that, since the goment forced a bogus ch.13 bankruptcy on it, and several other Larouchiac pubs.: http://www.wlym.com/drupal/campaigners )). > I told her about the nutter web pages that keep posting bogus gun > quotes attributed to the founders. All it takes is five seconds to thus: I didn't know that Zeeman made such an experiment, although I had read of Fizeau's (using high-pressure & -velocity water in a tube of some sort; did Z verify that?) I woulnd't put in the terms of either SR or mpc, because it's really more akin to general relativity viz-a-vu the "curvature of space" -- not of time, the big PLONK from Minkowski-THEN-he-died -- and that is what surfer's cited essay & figures dyscuss. read it & sleep on the un-nullities of Michelson & Morley et al (small, but quite regular; and, you can say "entrainment," if you must, iff only to evoke Eisntein's gedankenspiel ... and, we'll just ignore, that "eq. (B)" was derived by Lorentz, firstly, if also from "the" theory .-) > > > > problem of Section VI again before us. The tube plays the part of the > > > > railway embankment or of the co-ordinate system K, the liquid plays > > > > the part of the carriage or of the co-ordinate system K', and finally, > > > > the light plays the part of the man walking along the carriage, or of > > > > the moving point in the present section. If we denote the velocity of > > > > the light relative to the tube by W, then this is given by the > > > > equation (A) or (B), according as the Galilei transformation or the > > > > Lorentz transformation corresponds to the facts. Experiment 1 decides > > > > in favour of equation (B) derived from the theory of relativity, and > > > > the agreement is, indeed, very exact. According to recent and most > > > > excellent measurements by Zeeman, the influence of the velocity of > > > > flow v on the propagation of light is represented by formula (B) to > > > > within one per cent..." > neither M&M or their successors incurred this nullity, > that proven by Einstein's say-so on DCMiller's article, at Caltech; > fig. 3, belowsville, puts these results together in one picture. now, > surfer's language may be peculiar but, so, is yours.... > http://arxiv.org/abs/0804.0039 --l'OEuvre, http://wlym.com http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles_2009/Relativistic_Moon.pdf FCUK Copenhagen free carbon-credit trade rip-off; put a tariff on imported energy!
From: mpc755 on 29 Dec 2009 14:57 On Dec 29, 2:46 pm, spudnik <Space...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > garbage up; garbage back down. like I said, > Minkowski couldn't take-back his spiel > about phase-space. > > thus: > in California, primarily the gangs constitute the only militia, > per the second amendment (you can look-up the case-law on that, > a digest re the Constitution on Lexis-Nexis, where > it is pretty clear that the "right to bear arms" includes > the wearing of long-sleeved shirts; likewise, > it exposes the liberal-media-owned-by-consWervatives silliness, > where they always confuse "separation of church & state" > with the foundational dysestablishmentarianism in A#1 -- yeah, > they really, always do that, cuz TJ said the six words !-) > > so, what is this remarkable Madison/Marx patrimony, > that we exist under?... of course, > they were contemporaries, and Marx actually supported Henry Clay, > for a while, til he was subverted by The Veiled Librarian > at the British Library, in London. and, here, > you can look-up the past publications where this stuff was put, > in *The Campaigner* magazine (it is no-longer called that, > since the goment forced a bogus ch.13 bankruptcy on it, and > several other Larouchiac pubs.:http://www.wlym.com/drupal/campaigners > )). > > > I told her about the nutter web pages that keep posting bogus gun > > quotes attributed to the founders. All it takes is five seconds to > > thus: > I didn't know that Zeeman made such an experiment, although > I had read of Fizeau's (using high-pressure & -velocity water > in a tube of some sort; did Z verify that?) I woulnd't put > in the terms of either SR or mpc, because it's really more akin > to general relativity viz-a-vu the "curvature of space" > -- not of time, the big PLONK from Minkowski-THEN-he-died -- > and that is what surfer's cited essay & figures dyscuss. > > read it & sleep on the un-nullities of Michelson & Morley et al > (small, but quite regular; and, you can say "entrainment," if > you must, iff only to evoke Eisntein's gedankenspiel ... and, > we'll just ignore, that "eq. (B)" was derived by Lorentz, > firstly, if also from "the" theory .-) > > > > > > > > problem of Section VI again before us. The tube plays the part of the > > > > > railway embankment or of the co-ordinate system K, the liquid plays > > > > > the part of the carriage or of the co-ordinate system K', and finally, > > > > > the light plays the part of the man walking along the carriage, or of > > > > > the moving point in the present section. If we denote the velocity of > > > > > the light relative to the tube by W, then this is given by the > > > > > equation (A) or (B), according as the Galilei transformation or the > > > > > Lorentz transformation corresponds to the facts. Experiment 1 decides > > > > > in favour of equation (B) derived from the theory of relativity, and > > > > > the agreement is, indeed, very exact. According to recent and most > > > > > excellent measurements by Zeeman, the influence of the velocity of > > > > > flow v on the propagation of light is represented by formula (B) to > > > > > within one per cent..." > > neither M&M or their successors incurred this nullity, > > that proven by Einstein's say-so on DCMiller's article, at Caltech; > > fig. 3, belowsville, puts these results together in one picture. now, > > surfer's language may be peculiar but, so, is yours.... > >http://arxiv.org/abs/0804.0039 > > --l'OEuvre,http://wlym.comhttp://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles_2009/Relativistic_Moon... > FCUK Copenhagen free carbon-credit trade rip-off; > put a tariff on imported energy! I missed the "-- not of time" part in your previous post, but the concept of the "curvature of space" makes no sense. What is being curved? It can't be three dimensional space because the matter not occupies the "space" and besides, three dimensional space is a mathematical construct. Anyways, it is the 'stuff of space' which is being 'curved' by matter. In other words, the aether is being displaced by matter.
From: mpc755 on 29 Dec 2009 15:00 On Dec 14, 12:28 pm, "mcmvar...(a)gmail.com" <mcmvar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > http://xkcd.com/675/ > > Take that, crackpots! Change the quote to be "Einstein's train gedanken performed in water at rest with respect to the embankment" instead of "Racecar on a train" idea, and the dogma of SR is self evident.
From: spudnik on 29 Dec 2009 15:08
the curvature of space was "classically" proven, or empirically, by Aristarchus (with a cohort at the same longitude, different lattitude, same approx. time) and Gauss (who invented the theodolite, to do it, in a survey of (the disputed) Alsace-Lorraine for the French goment). > Anyways, it is the 'stuff of space' which is being 'curved' by matter. > In other words, the aether is being displaced by matter. thus: Lorenz found that they were deterministic, not fuzzy, but every little bit counts; especially, when you consider the vicisitudes of the manufacture of floating-point processing-ware from the spec (IEEE-755, -855; the first is an article in Computer magazine, 1980 issue .-) > Where weather is concerned, how wide are the possibilities > for a given day a month in the future? Somewhat rhetorical > but I'll answer that. So wide as to be useless, as > demonstrated by Lorenz. thus: garbage up; garbage back down. like I said, Minkowski couldn't take-back his spiel about phase-space. thus: in California, primarily the gangs constitute the only militia, per the second amendment (you can look-up the case-law on that, a digest re the Constitution on Lexis-Nexis, where it is pretty clear that the "right to bear arms" includes the wearing of long-sleeved shirts; likewise, it exposes the liberal-media-owned-by-consWervatives silliness, where they always confuse "separation of church & state" with the foundational dysestablishmentarianism in A#1 -- yeah, they really, always do that, cuz TJ said the six words !-) so, what is this remarkable Madison/Marx patrimony, that we exist under?... of course, they were contemporaries, and Marx actually supported Henry Clay, for a while, til he was subverted by The Veiled Librarian at the British Library, in London. and, here, you can look-up the past publications where this stuff was put, in *The Campaigner* magazine (it is no-longer called that, since the goment forced a bogus ch.13 bankruptcy on it, and several other Larouchiac pubs.: http://www.wlym.com/drupal/campaigners )). > I told her about the nutter web pages that keep posting bogus gun > quotes attributed to the founders. All it takes is five seconds to thus: I didn't know that Zeeman made such an experiment, although I had read of Fizeau's (using high-pressure & -velocity water in a tube of some sort; did Z verify that?) I woulnd't put in the terms of either SR or mpc, because it's really more akin to general relativity viz-a-vu the "curvature of space" -- not of time, the big PLONK from Minkowski-THEN-he-died -- and that is what surfer's cited essay & figures dyscuss. read it & sleep on the un-nullities of Michelson & Morley et al (small, but quite regular; and, you can say "entrainment," if you must, iff only to evoke Eisntein's gedankenspiel ... and, we'll just ignore, that "eq. (B)" was derived by Lorentz, firstly, if also from "the" theory .-) > > > > problem of Section VI again before us. The tube plays the part of the > > > > railway embankment or of the co-ordinate system K, the liquid plays > > > > the part of the carriage or of the co-ordinate system K', and finally, > > > > the light plays the part of the man walking along the carriage, or of > > > > the moving point in the present section. If we denote the velocity of > > > > the light relative to the tube by W, then this is given by the > > > > equation (A) or (B), according as the Galilei transformation or the > > > > Lorentz transformation corresponds to the facts. Experiment 1 decides > > > > in favour of equation (B) derived from the theory of relativity, and > > > > the agreement is, indeed, very exact. According to recent and most > > > > excellent measurements by Zeeman, the influence of the velocity of > > > > flow v on the propagation of light is represented by formula (B) to > > > > within one per cent..." > neither M&M or their successors incurred this nullity, > that proven by Einstein's say-so on DCMiller's article, at Caltech; > fig. 3, belowsville, puts these results together in one picture. now, > surfer's language may be peculiar but, so, is yours.... > http://arxiv.org/abs/0804.0039 --l'OEuvre, http://wlym.com http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles_2009/Relativistic_Moon.pdf FCUK Copenhagen free carbon-credit trade rip-off; put a tariff on imported energy! |