a hobby class on microcontrollers
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From: Frank Buss on 6 Jul 2010 00:54 Jon Kirwan wrote: > I have no idea who will come in the door. Some might. But > it isn't a pre-requisite... that's for sure. I want people > with zero VB and zero VC experience finding themselves > enjoying the time and wanting to be there. I don't know if it was already mentioned in this thread: http://www.arduino.cc/ People who don't have much computer experience sometimes have problems with complicated toolchains and pure C, so the Arduino project might be easier for them. Writing your own user friendly IDE would be much work. I don't know Arduino myself, because I like full control and low-level access to microcontrollers, even in assembler, but if your goal is something like a pottery class for people who have never done something pottery-like before, it might be better to concentrate on the projects (blinking LEDs, simple robots with sensors) instead of the development environment, because only strange people like programmers are interested in the technical aspect of programming, IDEs, assembler etc. :-) most people are just interested in the results and don't want to learn many low-level things. -- Frank Buss, fb(a)frank-buss.de http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
From: linnix on 6 Jul 2010 01:23 > I don't know Arduino myself, because I like full control and low-level > access to microcontrollers, even in assembler, but if your goal is > something like a pottery class for people who have never done something > pottery-like before, it might be better to concentrate on the projects ( The problem is creating something to capture their interests. > blinking LEDs, We, programmers, are interested in blinking LEDs because it's the easiest way to verify program logics. Blinking LEDs might not be so interesting for none programmers. > simple robots with sensors Not easy to do with low cost.
From: Chris H on 5 Jul 2010 08:24 In message <i0qq55$n4g$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Przemek Klosowski <przemek(a)tux.dot.org> writes >On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:22:38 -0700, Jon Kirwan wrote: > >> I need to think about a class that will include both young and old, all >> of whom have very little experience but at least the hope of trying to >> enjoy such a class on microcontrollers > >FWIW, Texas Instruments just came out with a simple MSP430 eval board >that costs $4.30: > >http://eetimes.eu/en/ti-offers-low-cost-development-kit-for-msp430-value- >line-mcus.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222902526&vID=44 > >I like MSP430 because is low power, pretty well supported and low cost, >but still has non-vendor-specific toolchains (GCC, Rowley, etc). What is a "non-vendor-specific toolchain" ? -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: Mel on 6 Jul 2010 06:11 Frank Buss wrote: > Jon Kirwan wrote: > >> I have no idea who will come in the door. Some might. But >> it isn't a pre-requisite... that's for sure. I want people >> with zero VB and zero VC experience finding themselves >> enjoying the time and wanting to be there. > > I don't know if it was already mentioned in this thread: > > http://www.arduino.cc/ Jon's first cost estimates seemed to push down toward the single-digit dollars area, and Arduino costs more than that. My guesstimate would be around $20..30 per unit per person. Once you pay that, you get a system that can be programmed to run stand-alone, a USB programming interface, a simple language and programming framework, and versions of the usual peripherals -- ADC, PWM, digital I/O, UART serial. Hooking up to lash-ups of outside equipment is what they're for. > People who don't have much computer experience sometimes have problems > with complicated toolchains and pure C, so the Arduino project might be > easier for them. Writing your own user friendly IDE would be much work. > > I don't know Arduino myself, because I like full control and low-level > access to microcontrollers, even in assembler, but if your goal is > something like a pottery class for people who have never done something > pottery-like before, it might be better to concentrate on the projects > (blinking LEDs, simple robots with sensors) instead of the development > environment, because only strange people like programmers are interested > in the technical aspect of programming, IDEs, assembler etc. :-) most > people are just interested in the results and don't want to learn many > low-level things. You can use the Arduino hardware outside the framework, but at that point it's cheaper to attach an ATmega_8 to a board and do precisely what you want for yourself. Mel.
From: Dennis on 6 Jul 2010 14:06
Mel wrote: > Frank Buss wrote: > >> Jon Kirwan wrote: >> >>> I have no idea who will come in the door. Some might. But >>> it isn't a pre-requisite... that's for sure. I want people >>> with zero VB and zero VC experience finding themselves >>> enjoying the time and wanting to be there. >> I don't know if it was already mentioned in this thread: >> >> http://www.arduino.cc/ > > Jon's first cost estimates seemed to push down toward the single-digit > dollars area, and Arduino costs more than that. My guesstimate would be > around $20..30 per unit per person. Once you pay that, you get a system > that can be programmed to run stand-alone, a USB programming interface, a > simple language and programming framework, and versions of the usual > peripherals -- ADC, PWM, digital I/O, UART serial. Hooking up to lash-ups > of outside equipment is what they're for. > I have been looking at the Arduino for a community ed class. I figure by the time I get an Arduino, large breadboard, a handful of leds, pot (for the adc), and some sensors it will total in the $50-$60 range - quite a bit above Jon's hope. But with the hardware and the development system it would be a simple and powerful system. For standalone projects they could use the Arduino for development and then get a cheaper board to plug the programmed chip into. >> People who don't have much computer experience sometimes have problems >> with complicated toolchains and pure C, so the Arduino project might be >> easier for them. Writing your own user friendly IDE would be much work. >> The Arduino tool chain is actually has a preprocessor that targets the AVR GCC tool chain. The sketch "language" is a subset of C,C++ that includes a number of predefined functions to drive the on chip peripherals. More advanced students can write C and C++ code that will be passed on through to GCC/LD. In fact I have included my own C++ classes as part of the sketch source and called them from the loop code. If you look at the code for the predefined functions you will find that much of it is C++ classes for the peripherals with simple interface member functions so that the end user is completely shielded from the details. >> I don't know Arduino myself, because I like full control and low-level >> access to microcontrollers, even in assembler, but if your goal is >> something like a pottery class for people who have never done something >> pottery-like before, it might be better to concentrate on the projects >> (blinking LEDs, simple robots with sensors) instead of the development >> environment, because only strange people like programmers are interested >> in the technical aspect of programming, IDEs, assembler etc. :-) most >> people are just interested in the results and don't want to learn many >> low-level things. > > You can use the Arduino hardware outside the framework, but at that point > it's cheaper to attach an ATmega_8 to a board and do precisely what you want > for yourself. > > Mel. > > |