Prev: STUDIOT::Re: low-power-cons, low-cost, uP+DSP combo for H.264 videoencoding & control/monitor application
Next: Multimeter Clock – Styled after the Simpson 260 Multimeter
From: Hans-Bernhard Bröker on 29 Jun 2010 06:25
Am 29.06.2010 02:12, schrieb Jon Kirwan:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 00:01:03 +0200, Hans-Bernhard Br�ker
> <HBBroeker(a)t-online.de> wrote:
>> Am 28.06.2010 20:44, schrieb Jon Kirwan:

>>> I wanted DIP because I want the _actual_ micro piece used in the
>>> final project to cost very little,

>> I don't think that's a valid line of reasoning.

> Despite your assurances contrary-wise, it is.

>> I seriously doubt that
>> the part being DIP has a guaranteed positived correlation to its
>> cheapness.
>
> No.. no.. that's not what I meant.

It is what you wrote, though. You'll have to forgive me for believing
you meant what you wrote.

> A DIP socket is very cheap.

As I just pointed out in another reply, a socket may not be as good an
idea as it appears at first sight. It encourages sloppiness.

> The 0.1" spacing is a minimum. I'd rather the parts
> used 1/4" spacing between pins. But that's not in the cards.

And it AFAIK it never was. DIL/DIP ICs never had bigger spacing than 0.1".
From: Jon Kirwan on 29 Jun 2010 06:35
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:44:21 +0200, David Brown
<david(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

>On 29/06/2010 10:24, Jon Kirwan wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:12:20 +0200, David Brown
>> <david(a)westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>> Maybe it's a culture difference, but I just don't understand the concept
>>> of someone who is planning to spend significant time learning a new
>>> hobby, but is unwilling to spend more than the price of a CD or a couple
>>> of beers for the required equipment.
>>> <snip>
>>
>> It may be a cultural difference.
>>
>> But your mistake in the above is that you are assuming the
>> students are "planning to spend significant time learning a
>> new hobby."
>>
>
>How many classes are they going to, and how long are these classes?

If I knew that now, I'd already have a curriculum set up and
I'd be in full mind of the target interest groups and their
needs and interests. I'm still wrestling over what I can
manage to deliver and what interests there may be for it and
each depends upon the other in complex ways.

Some of what you say, and others say, may influence what my
first attempts look like, as well.

So I'm not yet sure. Also, I need to "raise a flag and see
who salutes" it, too. This is a work in progress, of course,
and will reflect my available time and interests as much as
those of others.

A possible target is high school students in an hour long
after school event that takes place one night each week
during the school year, excepting holidays. I have a willing
school and a few teachers, but it's entirely up to me and the
students I meet next year what it will wind up looking like.
Or even if it lasts long.

Another might be a community college class, not for credit
but for those wishing to explore their own interests. They
may not have any idea at all if they will like to continue,
but would be willing to give it a go. In that case, I'd
probably start this out as a short summer course and see if
there is interest in something a little longer lasting.

Summer classes for a local community college here vary quite
a bit in length... from two 1-hr classes total for a class on
solar power for homes to something like four 2-hr classes for
"urban gardening." I still don't know what fit I want, yet.
So I'm not sure what my first shot at this will be like.

If there is more interest in a community class, perhaps the
usual 'term length' might then be in order. If so, then it
could be 10 weeks, 1 day a week, 1 or 2 hours depending on
what I hear and how far some feel willing and able to go. If
it gets much beyond that, I'd ask the college to help me turn
it into something more substantial. But I don't expect that
to happen.

Another might be residence homes for elder care. There are
quite a few interesting classes held at such places, already,
and some aspects may present interesting fare.

There is already a serious robotics club in the area, which I
do NOT expect nor want to replace. They are good folks, know
a lot, and are helpful. But one really does need to have
some tenacity and skill to make the most of it. And it can
be a bit scary to some folks because the path isn't smooth
and the goals are engaging and may be too much to reach for,
too quickly, for a lot of people who haven't ever tried their
hand at this.

Keep in mind my thoughts about pottery class. Some folks in
the class (like me) had no clue at all even if they would
like it or want to try a class ever again. Some leave,
halfway through. Most stick it out, make a few things, then
never come back again. Some get to be pretty professional
and come back again and again, eventually drifting away
towards more professional or serious hobby groups when they
feel right.

And very important: the class length will depend on the
target. 15 year olds have significantly shorter attention
spans than older adults, for example. I'll adjust, as
needed.

Actually, I'm writing far more than I know about, above. Most
is just guess, right now. I need to get serious in
developing a programming tool (BASIC like and perhaps with
semantics that XMOS' XC suggests, not sure yet) and see how
that pans out in some trials. I have a few target students
in mind to test things out on. If that goes okay, then I
will make presentations to local high schools, colleges, and
senior residence centers and anyone else who shows an
interest and see what happens.

But the real value is my own excitement and fun which I hope
will be infectious. This is about community and people and
relationships as much as anything else.

>If you are only talking about a few hours total, then presumably the
>kits are not "consumables" but will be used in class. Avoid anything
>involving solder or permanent changes to the kits, and they will be
>re-usable from group to group. That way you can afford more per kit
>since it will be used by more people.

>Also consider sharing kits amongst pairs or groups of students. It
>could make the class more fun, and again give you a higher budget per kit.

Like a pottery class, I want the students to take what
they've made home with them. I am not going to insist on
that, of course. They are free to just tinker, too. But
even though I took only one pottery course, I am very proud
of what I made while I was there and I use some of them and
keep others behind a glass door. I like to show them to
others and laugh a little with them about my exploits, too. I
hope to do a similar thing here. I would feel just a little
bit bad, if I told them they couldn't keep what they worked
on in class.

I don't know if you can understand that, since perhaps our
cultures are different in that way, as well. But I can see
this quite clearly.

I'm very glad you offered me your thinking about this and
some ideas about an approach that you feel might improve
situations. I may keep this in mind as everything develops.
Mostly, the students will guide me. I will simply try to
help them set their sights where it is achievable for each
with their own skills and interests and then try and help
them succeed in the end. I'll learn a lot from them in the
process and modify what I'm thinking and doing based on that.

Jon
From: Jon Kirwan on 29 Jun 2010 06:36
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 12:25:15 +0200, Hans-Bernhard Br�ker
<HBBroeker(a)t-online.de> wrote:

><snip>
>> The 0.1" spacing is a minimum. I'd rather the parts
>> used 1/4" spacing between pins. But that's not in the cards.
>
>And it AFAIK it never was. DIL/DIP ICs never had bigger spacing than 0.1".

Yes, I'm aware.

Jon
From: Jon Kirwan on 29 Jun 2010 06:39
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 12:25:15 +0200, Hans-Bernhard Br�ker
<HBBroeker(a)t-online.de> wrote:

>> A DIP socket is very cheap.
>
>As I just pointed out in another reply, a socket may not be as good an
>idea as it appears at first sight. It encourages sloppiness.

Some (most, I think) probably will need to work on
breadboards and use stripped jumpers to make connections.
These use .1" spacings.

And I'm not sure neatness is my proper primary goal, anyway.

Jon
From: Mel on 29 Jun 2010 06:48
David Brown wrote:

> I would forget about the idea of a DIP microcontroller, and rather aim
> for some sort of small ready-made board with a microcontroller and
> debugging interface (preferably USB) built-in.
>
> It is far better with a $100 chip that the students can work with, than
> a $1 chip they can't use. And if the $100 chip is the cheapest workable
> option, and you think it's too expensive, then cancel the class. All
> you are going to do by forcing people to use the $1 device is frustrate
> them and teach them that microcontrollers are out of their league.

At this point, a $20 Arduino with the chip soldered into the socket covers
all the requirements.

Mel.


First  |  Prev  |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Prev: STUDIOT::Re: low-power-cons, low-cost, uP+DSP combo for H.264 videoencoding & control/monitor application
Next: Multimeter Clock – Styled after the Simpson 260 Multimeter