From: JosephKK on
On Fri, 14 May 2010 09:17:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 May 2010 07:39:56 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>>> I like the sales tax, as opposed to income tax, because it puts
>>>> business on a better basis against imports, so saves jobs. And because
>>>> it would be enormously simpler and cheaper to comply with. No
>>>> accountants, no tax returns, no exemptions, no deductions, no
>>>> quarterly estimates, no loopholes... almost.
>>>>
>>>> Tax consumption. Don't tax savings or investment or job creation. If a
>>>> person is rich but doesn't spend any money, nobody can reasonably be
>>>> jealous of his wealth.
>>>>
>>> A serious problem with that: It punishes frugal people who have saved
>>> for their retirement and rewards those who squandered everything. The
>>> money they saved _has_ already been taxed.
>>
>> Simple fix: don't tax income.
>>
>
>Yeah, but how do you deal with income that _has_ already been taxed but
>not spent yet because people saved it for their retirement? A flat
>VAT-type tax is the same as confiscating xx% percent of that. Not fair
>at all.

Gosh, are your savings all that significant? Don't you pay (an ever
increasing in CA) sales tax already? Please to explain the difference.
From: JosephKK on
On Fri, 14 May 2010 10:08:36 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 May 2010 09:17:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 May 2010 07:39:56 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>>>> I like the sales tax, as opposed to income tax, because it puts
>>>>> business on a better basis against imports, so saves jobs. And because
>>>>> it would be enormously simpler and cheaper to comply with. No
>>>>> accountants, no tax returns, no exemptions, no deductions, no
>>>>> quarterly estimates, no loopholes... almost.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tax consumption. Don't tax savings or investment or job creation. If a
>>>>> person is rich but doesn't spend any money, nobody can reasonably be
>>>>> jealous of his wealth.
>>>>>
>>>> A serious problem with that: It punishes frugal people who have saved
>>>> for their retirement and rewards those who squandered everything. The
>>>> money they saved _has_ already been taxed.
>>>
>>> Simple fix: don't tax income.
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, but how do you deal with income that _has_ already been taxed but
>>not spent yet because people saved it for their retirement? A flat
>>VAT-type tax is the same as confiscating xx% percent of that. Not fair
>>at all.
>
>As I suggested, exempt basics, like food, reasonable rent, generic
>medicines. If people can afford a yacht, they can afford to pay sales
>tax on it.
>
>John
>
Aside from raw food, why have any exclusions? Cars, airplanes and yachts
all get taxed; just like they do now.
From: krw on
On Sun, 16 May 2010 13:54:00 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 May 2010 09:17:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 May 2010 07:39:56 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>>>> I like the sales tax, as opposed to income tax, because it puts
>>>>> business on a better basis against imports, so saves jobs. And because
>>>>> it would be enormously simpler and cheaper to comply with. No
>>>>> accountants, no tax returns, no exemptions, no deductions, no
>>>>> quarterly estimates, no loopholes... almost.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tax consumption. Don't tax savings or investment or job creation. If a
>>>>> person is rich but doesn't spend any money, nobody can reasonably be
>>>>> jealous of his wealth.
>>>>>
>>>> A serious problem with that: It punishes frugal people who have saved
>>>> for their retirement and rewards those who squandered everything. The
>>>> money they saved _has_ already been taxed.
>>>
>>> Simple fix: don't tax income.
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, but how do you deal with income that _has_ already been taxed but
>>not spent yet because people saved it for their retirement? A flat
>>VAT-type tax is the same as confiscating xx% percent of that. Not fair
>>at all.
>
>Gosh, are your savings all that significant?

Many do have significant savings over their lifetimes. Having enough to live
on the rest of their lives, isn't uncommon.

>Don't you pay (an ever
>increasing in CA) sales tax already? Please to explain the difference.

Compound interest tends to cancel inflation.
From: JosephKK on
On Fri, 14 May 2010 22:55:23 -0500, "krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
<krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 May 2010 10:08:36 -0700, John Larkin
><jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 14 May 2010 09:17:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 14 May 2010 07:39:56 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>>>> I like the sales tax, as opposed to income tax, because it puts
>>>>>> business on a better basis against imports, so saves jobs. And because
>>>>>> it would be enormously simpler and cheaper to comply with. No
>>>>>> accountants, no tax returns, no exemptions, no deductions, no
>>>>>> quarterly estimates, no loopholes... almost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tax consumption. Don't tax savings or investment or job creation. If a
>>>>>> person is rich but doesn't spend any money, nobody can reasonably be
>>>>>> jealous of his wealth.
>>>>>>
>>>>> A serious problem with that: It punishes frugal people who have saved
>>>>> for their retirement and rewards those who squandered everything. The
>>>>> money they saved _has_ already been taxed.
>>>>
>>>> Simple fix: don't tax income.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah, but how do you deal with income that _has_ already been taxed but
>>>not spent yet because people saved it for their retirement? A flat
>>>VAT-type tax is the same as confiscating xx% percent of that. Not fair
>>>at all.
>>
>>As I suggested, exempt basics, like food, reasonable rent, generic
>>medicines. If people can afford a yacht, they can afford to pay sales
>>tax on it.
>
>The point is that that money has already been taxed. It shouldn't matter if
>it is used to buy a yacht. Taxing it again is wrong (one reason I don't trust
>Roth IRAs).

So, i am not the only one to notice the recent attacks on them for tax
money. I know people who have actually had attempts to tax their Roth
IRA savings.
From: Joerg on
JosephKK wrote:
> On Fri, 14 May 2010 09:17:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 May 2010 07:39:56 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>>>>> I like the sales tax, as opposed to income tax, because it puts
>>>>> business on a better basis against imports, so saves jobs. And because
>>>>> it would be enormously simpler and cheaper to comply with. No
>>>>> accountants, no tax returns, no exemptions, no deductions, no
>>>>> quarterly estimates, no loopholes... almost.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tax consumption. Don't tax savings or investment or job creation. If a
>>>>> person is rich but doesn't spend any money, nobody can reasonably be
>>>>> jealous of his wealth.
>>>>>
>>>> A serious problem with that: It punishes frugal people who have saved
>>>> for their retirement and rewards those who squandered everything. The
>>>> money they saved _has_ already been taxed.
>>> Simple fix: don't tax income.
>>>
>> Yeah, but how do you deal with income that _has_ already been taxed but
>> not spent yet because people saved it for their retirement? A flat
>> VAT-type tax is the same as confiscating xx% percent of that. Not fair
>> at all.
>
> Gosh, are your savings all that significant? Don't you pay (an ever
> increasing in CA) sales tax already? Please to explain the difference.


The difference is this: Yes, I do save for retirement. And yes, one has
to make sacrifices to do that. Such as not buying a new car every five
years. As said several times this money _has_ already been taxed. So if
the income of the paycheck-to-paycheck guy gets taxed only at
consumption he has only paid tax once. I have then paid twice. That is
simply unfair.

Are you really thinking CA will give up their "normal" sales tax? You
must be dreaming ...

It'll also lead to tricks that people play. Lots of Europeans who must
pay a painfully high VAT come to the US and buy tons of stuff.
Electronics, clothes, you name it. If they manage to sneak it past
customs when going back home the vacation they enjoyed was often largely
"free".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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