conservation of Euros
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From: Bill Sloman on 15 May 2010 18:42 On May 13, 6:29 pm, John Larkin <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2010 08:59:10 -0700, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > > > > >Bill Slomanwrote: > >> On May 13, 3:46 pm, John Larkin > >> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>> On Thu, 13 May 2010 02:34:35 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman > > >>> <bill.slo...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > >>>> On May 12, 7:57 pm, John Larkin > >>>> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Wed, 12 May 2010 10:13:56 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman > >>>>> <bill.slo...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > >>>>>>> I don't harvest; I think. > >>>>>> An unconvincing claim. Your "thinking" reflects your indolent habit of > >>>>>> picking up predigested nonsense that fits your fat-headed > >>>>>> preconceptions. > >>>>> I've been calling you a fathead for years. You can't even design > >>>>> original insults. > >>>>>> In this thread you've claimed that the euro can't be stable currency > >>>>>> because it shared across several countries with different economic > >>>>>> strengths and weaknessess, while failing to note that the US dollar is > >>>>>> shared across the united states of America - running from Alaska to > >>>>>> Wyoming (neither of whose economies look much like California's). > >>>>> But we only have one government. > >>>> Your states don't have legislatures and governors? > >>> They aren't allowed to print money or regulate big financial > >>> institutions. Most must balance their budgets. The trouble that > >>> California is in now will be fixed by California. The trouble that > >>> Greece is in now will be fixed by Germany. > > >> Do pay attention. The trouble that Greece is now in will be fixed by > >> Greece. The EU - as a whole - will under-write Greek borrowing until > >> that happens. The Germans have had quite a lot of influence on the > >> requirements imposed on the Greeks in return for the guarantees, but > >> the Greeks have to do the work. > > >Do pay attention: > > >http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/2010/05/german-parliament-clears... > > >Quote: "Members of the Bundestag, Germany's lower house, approved a > >state-backed guarantee for the loan ..." > > >[...] > > The phrase "under-write Greek borrowing until..." is interesting. > > "Until" might include "the Germans elect a right-wing government." The current German admistration is dominated by the Christian Democratic Union, which isn't a left-wing party. The Wikipidea article on Germany's political parties classes it as middle-of-the-road http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Germany but classifies the Bavarian branch - the Christian Socialist Union - as centre-right, along with the Free Democratic Party, which is also part of the current administration. It's difficult to see how Germany could elect a more right-wing government, unless someone sets up a new radical right-wing political party. Far-right-thinking Americans might be willing to subsidise such a party, as Henry Ford subsidised Hitler in the 1920's, but that experiment didn't turn out too well. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Bill Sloman on 15 May 2010 18:48 On May 13, 6:27 pm, John Larkin <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2010 08:53:35 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman > > <bill.slo...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > > >> >Actually, I know that it isn't important - if you have a tertiary > >> >qualification from a European educational institution, you are going > >> >to be fluent in English. What I don't know is why you think otherwise > >> >- I could ask you to explain, but I don't fancy being directed to the > >> >irrational output from some right-wing propaganda mill. > > >> So, you don't know much about the world. > > >Or so you'd like to think. You still haven't told me why you think > >that language is important in this context, but retreated behind your > >earlier - unsupported - claim. Bankers have been managing financial > >trasactions across linguistic boundaries for the past few thousand > >years. It isn't difficult, and they've had lots of practice. > > I'd explain, except that you told me just above not to explain. No. I told you not to get your explanation from your usual suppliers. > But since you understand the world so well, it should be obvious. Since you clearly don't know much about the world you claim to understand, I'd like to know why you think that it should be obvious, when it is clear to me that the proposition is obviously wrong, for the reason that I gave in the post to which you responded - you snipped it out of your response, but I've put it back in again above. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Bill Sloman on 15 May 2010 18:53 On May 14, 5:06 pm, dagmargoodb...(a)yahoo.com wrote: > On May 14, 9:56 am, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > > > > >Bill Slomanwrote: > > > On May 14, 12:39 am, John Larkin > > > <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > > > [...] > > > >> That's the way sales tax works in California. If I buy uncooked > > >> chicken at Safeway, there's no sales tax. If I buy cooked, hot, > > >> ready-to-eat chicken, it's taxed. It's simple, because it's a visible, > > >> automated-cash-register, point-of-sale tax. Restaurant food is taxed > > >> whether you eat it there or not. I can't imagine how you could work a > > >> thing like this all the way back up the VAT chain. > > > >> It would be easy to structure a national sales tax to exempt the > > >> things poorer people actually need. There would be some cheating > > >> around the edges, but there always will be some cheating. But things > > >> like VAT carousel fraud couldn't happen. > > > >> (One shop near here sells " *WARM* " corned-beef sandwiches because > > >> hot ones have a higher tax rate.) > > > >> I like the sales tax, as opposed to income tax, because it puts > > >> business on a better basis against imports, so saves jobs. And because > > >> it would be enormously simpler and cheaper to comply with. No > > >> accountants, no tax returns, no exemptions, no deductions, no > > >> quarterly estimates, no loopholes... almost. > > > > Dream on. Why do you think that VAT was invented? > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax > > > The usual. To squeeze ever more taxes out of people. > > And--don't forget--to hide the deed, hence the prestidigitation. > > My favorite accountant says spotting fraud is easy--she just looks for > unreasonable complexity. Like VAT. > > > Whether you call > > them VAT, fees, surcharges, carbon credits or whatever, a tax is a tax > > is a tax. > > Yup. VAT is conceptually simple, and gets rid of many of the defects of simple sales taxes, which is why it was invented in the first place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax There's no prestidigitation involved, as James Arthur would have known if he'd ever bothered to find out how value added tax actually works, as opposed to abjuring it as a European heresy. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Joerg on 15 May 2010 19:11 Bill Sloman wrote: > On May 13, 5:59 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> Bill Slomanwrote: >>> On May 13, 3:46 pm, John Larkin >>> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>> On Thu, 13 May 2010 02:34:35 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman >>>> <bill.slo...(a)ieee.org> wrote: >>>>> On May 12, 7:57 pm, John Larkin >>>>> <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 12 May 2010 10:13:56 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman >>>>>> <bill.slo...(a)ieee.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> I don't harvest; I think. >>>>>>> An unconvincing claim. Your "thinking" reflects your indolent habit of >>>>>>> picking up predigested nonsense that fits your fat-headed >>>>>>> preconceptions. >>>>>> I've been calling you a fathead for years. You can't even design >>>>>> original insults. >>>>>>> In this thread you've claimed that the euro can't be stable currency >>>>>>> because it shared across several countries with different economic >>>>>>> strengths and weaknessess, while failing to note that the US dollar is >>>>>>> shared across the united states of America - running from Alaska to >>>>>>> Wyoming (neither of whose economies look much like California's). >>>>>> But we only have one government. >>>>> Your states don't have legislatures and governors? >>>> They aren't allowed to print money or regulate big financial >>>> institutions. Most must balance their budgets. The trouble that >>>> California is in now will be fixed by California. The trouble that >>>> Greece is in now will be fixed by Germany. >>> Do pay attention. The trouble that Greece is now in will be fixed by >>> Greece. The EU - as a whole - will under-write Greek borrowing until >>> that happens. The Germans have had quite a lot of influence on the >>> requirements imposed on the Greeks in return for the guarantees, but >>> the Greeks have to do the work. >> Do pay attention: >> >> http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/2010/05/german-parliament-clears... >> >> Quote: "Members of the Bundestag, Germany's lower house, approved a >> state-backed guarantee for the loan ..." > > It's you who needs to pay attention. The EU - as a whole - is under- > writing the Greek borrowing. The individual memebers of the EU have to > pass legislation to approve their particular country's part of the > package. The Dutch lower house approved the Dutch component recently. > It's still a collective decision. > So, what exactly does "state-backed" mean in your opinion? Your notion that "The trouble that Greece is now in will be fixed by Greece" will IMHO not come to pass. They are unlikely able to fix the damage that living beyond their means for years has done. It's other European countries who will fix it, also countries overseas such as the US (via IMF). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 15 May 2010 19:16
Nico Coesel wrote: > Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Nico Coesel wrote: >>> John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.hdgFGtPjbY >>>> >>>> You can't fool Mother Nature. When a few hundred million people choose >>>> to not work much, not breed much, and consume a lot, you just can't >>>> spend your way out of the problem. >>>> >>>> This is the leading edge of the European demographic crisis that's >>>> been building for generations now. There's no quick fix. >>> My gut feeling says this is all a bunch of nonsense. Countries are >>> still waiting in line to start using the Euro: >>> >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8678073.stm >>> >> Maybe they should wait a little until the exchange rate versus whatever >> they are using now has dropped some more? Yesterday it fell to under $1.24. > > The exchange rate is probably fixed already. Before the euro was > actually introduced the exchange rates where already fixed. Balancing > exchange rates between European countries has been going on for a long > time: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Currency_Unit > Yeah, but: Nothing will prevent any country (and the people living there) from buying bonds denominated in USD or other currencies before a switch and then selling them at a convenient time later after the multiple crises in Europe have settled. Hoping that they do settle soon ... -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM. |