line-move-visual
in [Lisp]
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From: Stefan Monnier on 7 Jun 2010 12:23 > The change was clearly documented in the NEWS file, which also explained > how to restore the old behavior. Admittedly, this file is loong. We should probably try to make a "revert to old defaults" section somewhere so it's easier to find those things. Stefan
From: Leo on 8 Jun 2010 04:52 On 2010-06-07 09:19 +0100, Uday S Reddy wrote: > "Yes, it's inconsistent, yes, it's a compromise, no not everybody > likes it. Then (setq line-move-visual nil) in your .emacs and live > happily ever after." > > ... only then did I understand that the emacs devs had done a > completely pointless thing that I could easily revert. And that usually is the outcome of long discussions. The whole new feature is almost useless (by adding its + and -) and I wished they had been more careful and selective in putting things in emacs releases. Leo
From: Joseph Brenner on 9 Jun 2010 16:23 Stefan Monnier <monnier(a)iro.umontreal.ca> writes: >> The change was clearly documented in the NEWS file, which also explained >> how to restore the old behavior. > > Admittedly, this file is loong. We should probably try to make > a "revert to old defaults" section somewhere so it's easier to find > those things. Actually... if you're planning of having a section like that, I'd suggest there's already a bigger problem.
From: Joseph Brenner on 9 Jun 2010 17:38 David Kastrup <dak(a)gnu.org> writes: > Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy(a)cs.bham.ac.uk> writes: > >> Coupled with these real technical issues, there are the attitudinal >> problems of holier-than-thou, smarter-than-thou and modern-than-thou >> and what have you. > > Everybody is free to join the discussions on the Emacs developer lists. > Those who choose not to help with the work don't get to criticize the > results. A common democratic principle. So... if I want to avoid breakage-on-upgrade on my system, I need to become a member of the development process of: emacs linux kernel ubuntu (and presumably debian) x windows Not to mention: apache postgresql perl mh-e mh ....and much more. If I thought everyone in the free and/or open world really believed this, I would've voted with my feet a long time ago. (Maybe you should stop pretending you're our spokesman, huh?)
From: Jim Diamond on 9 Jun 2010 21:34
["Followup-To:" header set to gnu.emacs.help.] On 2010-06-09 at 18:38 ADT, Joseph Brenner <doom(a)kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote: > > David Kastrup <dak(a)gnu.org> writes: >> Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy(a)cs.bham.ac.uk> writes: >> >>> Coupled with these real technical issues, there are the attitudinal >>> problems of holier-than-thou, smarter-than-thou and modern-than-thou >>> and what have you. >> >> Everybody is free to join the discussions on the Emacs developer lists. >> Those who choose not to help with the work don't get to criticize the >> results. A common democratic principle. > > So... if I want to avoid breakage-on-upgrade on my system, I need to > become a member of the development process of: > > emacs > linux kernel > ubuntu (and presumably debian) > x windows > > Not to mention: > > apache > postgresql > perl > mh-e > mh > > ...and much more. And you can imagine how the usefulness of those discussions would rapidly drop to zero if everyone who used emacs (or any of your other examples) joined the (respective) development discussions. David: the message (about fundamental features changing being a Bad Thing) was delivered in a less than gentle way, but I think you should re-consider the idea, as opposed to the way it was delivered. Further, your comment "Those who choose ... A common democratic principle." is just plain wrong. But I assume you know that. Cheers. Jim |