line-move-visual
in [Lisp]
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From: Jim Diamond on 13 Jun 2010 20:42 On 2010-06-13 at 17:56 ADT, Alan Mackenzie <acm(a)muc.de> wrote: > In comp.emacs Mark Crispin <mrc(a)panda.com> wrote: >> This wouldn't have been a problem had the arrow keys been changed to >> the new semantics and CTRL-A/E/N/P been left alone. The new semantics >> are even arguably right for arrow keys (although I would go further and >> say that they should also treat tabs as the equivalent number of >> spaces). It isn't as if we're still in the 1970s and have keyboards >> without arrow keys. > The arrow keys are a long way away from the home position on the > keyboard. You're surely not suggesting rebinding those four key > sequences to something else? Why not? Presumably (*) the idea of having long lines and moving to the next visual line (as the default) is to placate word-processor refugees, who are probably used to using arrow keys (regardless of how far they are from the home position) and not interested in using Ctrl-A,E,N,P. (*) Wild speculation, since I didn't read the discussion on the developer list. Mea culpa. Jim
From: Uday S Reddy on 14 Jun 2010 06:49 Alan Mackenzie wrote: > It's far from obvious that this change (line-visual-mode being set) is a > Bad Thing. Without it, moving around things like log files with 300 > character lines was an utter pain. I'd suggest it was more of a pain > than the one you're suffering, because it hit users using Emacs in its > principal way of working, rather than in special cases in some obscure feature > (keyboard macros). If line-move-visual was nil by default, would you have been able to set it to t in order to move around the log files? Cheers, Uday
From: Alan Mackenzie on 14 Jun 2010 13:16 In comp.emacs Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy(a)cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote: > Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> It's far from obvious that this change (line-visual-mode being set) is >> a Bad Thing. Without it, moving around things like log files with 300 >> character lines was an utter pain. I'd suggest it was more of a pain >> than the one you're suffering, because it hit users using Emacs in its >> principal way of working, rather than in special cases in some obscure >> feature (keyboard macros). > If line-move-visual was nil by default, would you have been able to set > it to t in order to move around the log files? WADR, that's a silly question. This entire thread has been solely about default settings, as are many discussions on the devlopers' mailing list. However, the fact is that I didn't actually set line-visual-mode in any Emacs before 23. That suggests I either wasn't aware of this setting, or the pain it caused me, whilst real, didn't cross some sort of (fairly high) threshold. I honestly can't remember any more. When using Emacs as a full screen editor (how it's used most of the time), a key binding is needed to go to the next/previous visual line. Using C-p/C-n (or <up>/<down>) seems as good a choice as any. > Cheers, > Uday -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
From: Uday S Reddy on 14 Jun 2010 13:34 Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> If line-move-visual was nil by default, would you have been able to set >> it to t in order to move around the log files? > > WADR, that's a silly question. This entire thread has been solely about > default settings, as are many discussions on the devlopers' mailing list. Sorry if it sounded silly. The setting of the default to t was precisely targeted to help people like you. Neither the setting nor the functionality existed before Emacs 23. So, you didn't miss anything. But, after having added this functionality, I think the developers believed that people like you might not have been able to discover the new functionality on your own, unless it was made the default. Are you agreeing with that assessment? Other than changing defaults, is there some other form of "advertising" the Emacs devs could have used to bring it to your attention? Cheers, Uday
From: David Kastrup on 14 Jun 2010 14:16
Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy(a)cs.bham.ac.uk> writes: > Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> >>> If line-move-visual was nil by default, would you have been able to set >>> it to t in order to move around the log files? >> >> WADR, that's a silly question. This entire thread has been solely about >> default settings, as are many discussions on the devlopers' mailing list. > > Sorry if it sounded silly. The setting of the default to t was > precisely targeted to help people like you. > > Neither the setting nor the functionality existed before Emacs 23. > So, you didn't miss anything. But, after having added this > functionality, I think the developers believed that people like you > might not have been able to discover the new functionality on your > own, unless it was made the default. Are you agreeing with that > assessment? It will be interesting to see where you are heading. You are aware that Alan is the maintainer of cc-mode? -- David Kastrup |