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From: JosephKK on 17 Oct 2009 11:53 On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:29:42 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:19:08 -0700, >"JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:09:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>wrote: >> >>>John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:40:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:58:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>>>>> Longterm, gigabit (and whatever comes next) Ethernet is the only >>>>>>>> reasonable instrument bus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sure, unless you need timing coherence between instruments. >>>>>> The IEEE-1588 protocol can sync boxes to within nanoseconds over >>>>>> ethernet >>>>>> >>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Time_Protocol >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also there's all this nice stuff around that's GPIB & RS232. >>>>>> It's also nice when an instrument has a web-page interface, and can be >>>>>> telnet-ed to, without any PC plugin boards or drivers. Or distance >>>>>> limits. >>>>>> >>>>> Hey, then you could sit there at Zeitgeist all day long and run it all >>>>> via a 3G phone :-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> I guess future instruments will be Twitter compatible. >>>> >>> >>>Yeah, even IEEE fell for that. An engineer's organization, of all >>>places. Pathetic. >> >>And since when are engineers not people with all their follies? > >Good engineers discipline their follies with reason, so that the >things they design work. > >John Like MS Vista works? Like many MS compatible products? Like the Tacoma narrows bridge? Please study up on engineering failures, it might help you gain humility.
From: John Larkin on 17 Oct 2009 12:25 On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 08:53:38 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:29:42 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:19:08 -0700, >>"JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:09:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>wrote: >>> >>>>John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:40:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:58:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> [...] >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Longterm, gigabit (and whatever comes next) Ethernet is the only >>>>>>>>> reasonable instrument bus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sure, unless you need timing coherence between instruments. >>>>>>> The IEEE-1588 protocol can sync boxes to within nanoseconds over >>>>>>> ethernet >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Time_Protocol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also there's all this nice stuff around that's GPIB & RS232. >>>>>>> It's also nice when an instrument has a web-page interface, and can be >>>>>>> telnet-ed to, without any PC plugin boards or drivers. Or distance >>>>>>> limits. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Hey, then you could sit there at Zeitgeist all day long and run it all >>>>>> via a 3G phone :-) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I guess future instruments will be Twitter compatible. >>>>> >>>> >>>>Yeah, even IEEE fell for that. An engineer's organization, of all >>>>places. Pathetic. >>> >>>And since when are engineers not people with all their follies? >> >>Good engineers discipline their follies with reason, so that the >>things they design work. >> >>John > >Like MS Vista works? Like many MS compatible products? Like the >Tacoma narrows bridge? Please study up on engineering failures, it >might help you gain humility. Vista isn't engineering. There's no math, no theory, no science in writing C++ GUIs. Read "Showstopper!" and then read some Windows source code. I have a pretty good collection of books about engineering failures (mostly civil and software stuff), company failures, scientific fraud, and engineering philosophy. Just a few in reach on the shelf... The Hubbel Wars Plastic Fantastic Engineering in History Why Things Fall Down Why Things Don't Fall Down The Undergrowth of Science Why Things Bite Back Fatal Defect: Chasing Killer Computer Bugs Showstopper! The World's Worst Aircraft The Truth About Chernobyl F'd Companies The Moth in the Machine and a bunch more, probably upstairs. Read any of these? Any suggestions for others? But humility? Our stuff usually works first time, without prototypes, because we doubt everything and triple-check everything. John
From: Phil Hobbs on 17 Oct 2009 13:18 John Larkin wrote: > JosephKK wrote: >> Like MS Vista works? Like many MS compatible products? Like the >> Tacoma narrows bridge? Please study up on engineering failures, it >> might help you gain humility. > > Vista isn't engineering. There's no math, no theory, no science in > writing C++ GUIs. Read "Showstopper!" and then read some Windows > source code. > > I have a pretty good collection of books about engineering failures > (mostly civil and software stuff), company failures, scientific fraud, > and engineering philosophy. > > Just a few in reach on the shelf... > > The Hubbel Wars > > Plastic Fantastic > > Engineering in History > > Why Things Fall Down > > Why Things Don't Fall Down > > The Undergrowth of Science > > Why Things Bite Back > > Fatal Defect: Chasing Killer Computer Bugs > > Showstopper! > > The World's Worst Aircraft > > The Truth About Chernobyl > > F'd Companies > > The Moth in the Machine > > and a bunch more, probably upstairs. > > > Read any of these? Any suggestions for others? > > But humility? Our stuff usually works first time, without prototypes, > because we doubt everything and triple-check everything. > > John > > 1. Normal Accidents, by Charles Perrow. Really good book on the way that tight coupling, nonlinearity, and transformation processes interact to produce system failures. His more recent one, "The Next Catastrophe" is way too shrill--he's been drinking the anthropogenic Kool-Ade. (Not that there isn't a lot of genuinely stupid stuff for him to complain about--it's just his tone, and his relentless call for boatloads of new regulation. Superfund, anyone?) 2. The Inmates Are Running The Asylum. "What do you get when you cross a toaster with a computer? A computer." All about the stupid arbitrariness of software-driven things. 3. "To Engineer Is Human" by Henry Petroski. About how engineering failures drive engineering progress. Talks about the Hyatt Regency walkways, the Tacoma Narrows, etc. 4. "The Skeptical Environmentalist" by Bjorn Lomborg. By a tree-hugging Greenpeacey Scandinavian professor (but I repeat myself). He teaches statistics, and thought it would be a great project for his students to look at how the environmental movement uses stats to back up their claims. Results: *almost none of them stand up*. He found that claims that the environment was getting steadily worse were all smoke and mirrors--on every single metric he could find, things had improved a great deal in the last 20 years. It's really a devastating critique of the lies and malfeasance of NGOs from somebody who used to be a True Believer. (The howls of anger from the Left were even louder than you might expect--this threatens to derail their gravy train.) 5. "Who Really Cares?" by Arthur Brooks. Another former true believer who decided to document how much more generous liberals were with their own money, and got mugged by reality. It turns out that as a proportion of income, the working poor are far more generous than people on public assistance at the same income level, and religious conservatives give *three times* more of their income to charity than liberals. It's a real tribute to his honesty, because he's still a liberal politically, but he now believes in 'compassionate conservatives', and is trying to get liberals to be more generous with their own money for a change. 6. The reports of the Presidential Commissions on the Challenger and Columbia disasters. Really good on how production pressure, organizational cowardice, and (if you read between the lines) executive failures cause disasters. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
From: John Larkin on 17 Oct 2009 13:33 On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 13:18:17 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >John Larkin wrote: > > JosephKK wrote: > >> Like MS Vista works? Like many MS compatible products? Like the > >> Tacoma narrows bridge? Please study up on engineering failures, it > >> might help you gain humility. > > > > Vista isn't engineering. There's no math, no theory, no science in > > writing C++ GUIs. Read "Showstopper!" and then read some Windows > > source code. > > > > I have a pretty good collection of books about engineering failures > > (mostly civil and software stuff), company failures, scientific fraud, > > and engineering philosophy. > > > > Just a few in reach on the shelf... > > > > The Hubbel Wars > > > > Plastic Fantastic > > > > Engineering in History > > > > Why Things Fall Down > > > > Why Things Don't Fall Down > > > > The Undergrowth of Science > > > > Why Things Bite Back > > > > Fatal Defect: Chasing Killer Computer Bugs > > > > Showstopper! > > > > The World's Worst Aircraft > > > > The Truth About Chernobyl > > > > F'd Companies > > > > The Moth in the Machine > > > > and a bunch more, probably upstairs. > > > > > > Read any of these? Any suggestions for others? > > > > But humility? Our stuff usually works first time, without prototypes, > > because we doubt everything and triple-check everything. > > > > John > > > > > >1. Normal Accidents, by Charles Perrow. Really good book on the way >that tight coupling, nonlinearity, and transformation processes interact >to produce system failures. > >His more recent one, "The Next Catastrophe" is way too shrill--he's been >drinking the anthropogenic Kool-Ade. (Not that there isn't a lot of >genuinely stupid stuff for him to complain about--it's just his tone, >and his relentless call for boatloads of new regulation. Superfund, >anyone?) > >2. The Inmates Are Running The Asylum. "What do you get when you cross >a toaster with a computer? A computer." All about the stupid >arbitrariness of software-driven things. > >3. "To Engineer Is Human" by Henry Petroski. About how engineering >failures drive engineering progress. Talks about the Hyatt Regency >walkways, the Tacoma Narrows, etc. Got that, somewhere around here. Good one. >4. "The Skeptical Environmentalist" by Bjorn Lomborg. By a >tree-hugging Greenpeacey Scandinavian professor (but I repeat myself). >He teaches statistics, and thought it would be a great project for his >students to look at how the environmental movement uses stats to back up >their claims. Results: *almost none of them stand up*. He >found that claims that the environment was getting steadily worse were >all smoke and mirrors--on every single metric he could find, things had >improved a great deal in the last 20 years. It's really a devastating >critique of the lies and malfeasance of NGOs from somebody who used to >be a True Believer. (The howls of anger from the Left were even louder >than you might expect--this threatens to derail their gravy train.) > >5. "Who Really Cares?" by Arthur Brooks. Another former true believer >who decided to document how much more generous liberals were with their >own money, and got mugged by reality. It turns out that as a proportion >of income, the working poor are far more generous than people on public >assistance at the same income level, and religious conservatives give >*three times* more of their income to charity than liberals. > This is a great book. The people who give the most get the most. People who Believe are happier and healthier than those who don't. >It's a real tribute to his honesty, because he's still a liberal >politically, but he now believes in 'compassionate conservatives', and >is trying to get liberals to be more generous with their own money for a >change. > >6. The reports of the Presidential Commissions on the Challenger and >Columbia disasters. Really good on how production pressure, >organizational cowardice, and (if you read between the lines) executive >failures cause disasters. There aren't enough books about the philosophy and psychology of engineering. Given how many engineers there are, and how much we affect the world, you'd think more people would be interested in us. > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs Hey, I gave away another of your books yesterday, to some Canadians who unaccountably had never heard of it. John
From: Phil Hobbs on 17 Oct 2009 13:48
John Larkin wrote: > There aren't enough books about the philosophy and psychology of > engineering. Given how many engineers there are, and how much we > affect the world, you'd think more people would be interested in us. > > > Hey, I gave away another of your books yesterday, to some Canadians > who unaccountably had never heard of it. > > John > Thanks--that'll be another 8 minutes' worth in my son's college fund. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net |