my lab
in [Design]
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From: JosephKK on 16 Oct 2009 00:05 On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:05:12 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:52:59 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: > >>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 02:33:18 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >><mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> >>>Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:18:14 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >Joerg wrote: >>>> >> Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>> >>> Joerg wrote: >>>> >>>> a7yvm109gf5d1(a)netzero.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well I got a HP 5316A universal counter, with the 1GHz channel and the >>>> >>>>> OCXO. >>>> >>>>> Very nice, I think. Although I suppose I still have the problem of not >>>> >>>>> knowing exactly the frequency of the OCXO is, after all there are >>>> >>>>> coarse and fine adjustments on the can... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, there is WWV :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Eh, still, I'm pretty happy with the cheap stuff you can get with a >>>> >>>>> bit of patience. >>>> >>>>> I think that I will build a 10V "standard" from my AD588s, in a nice >>>> >>>>> box. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> So, what kind of connectivity do you guys have in yuor lab? Is >>>> >>>>> everything GPIB, USB, or some mix? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A mix, and that's unavoidable. Older gear that is irreplaceable >>>> >>>> (because they simply don't make some of the good stuff anymore) >>>> >>>> inevitably comes with those dreaded HPIB garden hose connections. The >>>> >>>> logic analyzer and some other gear I rarely use is from the RS232 >>>> >>>> era. Modern gear like the DSO is USB. And I will absolutely not have >>>> >>>> HPIB garden hoses here anymore. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So, there is a Prologix HPIB/USB adaptor, an RS232/USB adaptor plus >>>> >>>> the traditional USB spreader octopus. I raised the equipment rack by >>>> >>>> 1-1/2" to make all that fit underneath, plus scope probes, chargers, >>>> >>>> international outlets, a flat vise and whatever else is needed during >>>> >>>> lab work. Nice thing is, a laptop can now talk to all the important >>>> >>>> boxes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I'm so used to GPIB that I'm probably not a good example. It's a >>>> >>> great deal nicer than RS232, and given that it's been around so long, >>>> >>> I don't have to worry much about OSes not supporting it in >>>> >>> detail--unlike USB. >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> GPIB is terrible. The topper happened a long time ago, after I had just >>>> >> laid new carpet. Connector slipped off, the garden hose cable >>>> >> ricocheted, hit my coffee mug which was half full ... *THWACK* .... flew >>>> >> off and crashed onto new carpet. That was the end of GPIB for me. There >>>> >> sure are better busses out there. I used to prefer RS232 but now >>>> >> everything is USB. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> A nice Prologix GPIB-Ethernet is next on my list. >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> If you have to use equipment at clients a lot and its legacy HP stuff >>>> >> the USB version is very practical. Plug it in, hit print on the >>>> >> analyzer, done. But Abdul (the Prologix designer) and I had to iron out >>>> >> a bias problem before it liked HP legacy gear. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >Spilling coffee is a criticism of a bus? GPIB can do about 1 MB/s when >>>> >externally clocked, which is better than good enough for most things I >>>> >need to do in the lab, and if I tighten the screws I can even keep my >>>> >coffee and my carpet. ;) >>>> > >>>> >Cheers >>>> > >>>> >Phil Hobbs >>>> >>>> Joerg is accident prone... always *PHUT*ing ;-) >>> >>> >>> He always has one *PHUT* in the grave... >> >> Very good! > >We need to have an SED get-together. If I hosted it, say in April, >when AZ is absolutely delightful weather-wise, who would come? > > ...Jim Thompson I would be interested.
From: JosephKK on 16 Oct 2009 00:09 On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:28:06 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:58:40 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: > >>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:05:12 -0700, Jim Thompson >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:52:59 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >>> >>>>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 02:33:18 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>>><mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:18:14 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >Joerg wrote: >>>>>> >> Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>> >>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>> >>>> a7yvm109gf5d1(a)netzero.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> Well I got a HP 5316A universal counter, with the 1GHz channel and the >>>>>> >>>>> OCXO. >>>>>> >>>>> Very nice, I think. Although I suppose I still have the problem of not >>>>>> >>>>> knowing exactly the frequency of the OCXO is, after all there are >>>>>> >>>>> coarse and fine adjustments on the can... >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Well, there is WWV :-) >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Eh, still, I'm pretty happy with the cheap stuff you can get with a >>>>>> >>>>> bit of patience. >>>>>> >>>>> I think that I will build a 10V "standard" from my AD588s, in a nice >>>>>> >>>>> box. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> So, what kind of connectivity do you guys have in yuor lab? Is >>>>>> >>>>> everything GPIB, USB, or some mix? >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> A mix, and that's unavoidable. Older gear that is irreplaceable >>>>>> >>>> (because they simply don't make some of the good stuff anymore) >>>>>> >>>> inevitably comes with those dreaded HPIB garden hose connections. The >>>>>> >>>> logic analyzer and some other gear I rarely use is from the RS232 >>>>>> >>>> era. Modern gear like the DSO is USB. And I will absolutely not have >>>>>> >>>> HPIB garden hoses here anymore. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> So, there is a Prologix HPIB/USB adaptor, an RS232/USB adaptor plus >>>>>> >>>> the traditional USB spreader octopus. I raised the equipment rack by >>>>>> >>>> 1-1/2" to make all that fit underneath, plus scope probes, chargers, >>>>>> >>>> international outlets, a flat vise and whatever else is needed during >>>>>> >>>> lab work. Nice thing is, a laptop can now talk to all the important >>>>>> >>>> boxes. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> I'm so used to GPIB that I'm probably not a good example. It's a >>>>>> >>> great deal nicer than RS232, and given that it's been around so long, >>>>>> >>> I don't have to worry much about OSes not supporting it in >>>>>> >>> detail--unlike USB. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> GPIB is terrible. The topper happened a long time ago, after I had just >>>>>> >> laid new carpet. Connector slipped off, the garden hose cable >>>>>> >> ricocheted, hit my coffee mug which was half full ... *THWACK* .... flew >>>>>> >> off and crashed onto new carpet. That was the end of GPIB for me. There >>>>>> >> sure are better busses out there. I used to prefer RS232 but now >>>>>> >> everything is USB. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> A nice Prologix GPIB-Ethernet is next on my list. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> If you have to use equipment at clients a lot and its legacy HP stuff >>>>>> >> the USB version is very practical. Plug it in, hit print on the >>>>>> >> analyzer, done. But Abdul (the Prologix designer) and I had to iron out >>>>>> >> a bias problem before it liked HP legacy gear. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >Spilling coffee is a criticism of a bus? GPIB can do about 1 MB/s when >>>>>> >externally clocked, which is better than good enough for most things I >>>>>> >need to do in the lab, and if I tighten the screws I can even keep my >>>>>> >coffee and my carpet. ;) >>>>>> > >>>>>> >Cheers >>>>>> > >>>>>> >Phil Hobbs >>>>>> >>>>>> Joerg is accident prone... always *PHUT*ing ;-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> He always has one *PHUT* in the grave... >>>> >>>> Very good! >>> >>>We need to have an SED get-together. If I hosted it, say in April, >>>when AZ is absolutely delightful weather-wise, who would come? >> >>I'd have to think about it. It's quite a trip to roast weenies. > >Only "weenies" I'd roast would be liberals ;-) > >We might possibly have "Brats"... more likely ribs and steaks. > >And kegs... for the youngsters, vino de casa for the adults ;-) > > ...Jim Thompson And the path would take me past Eschbach's (a first class German butcher shop, compleat with smokehouse).
From: JosephKK on 16 Oct 2009 00:19 On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:09:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >John Larkin wrote: >> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:40:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:58:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>> [...] >>> >>>>>> Longterm, gigabit (and whatever comes next) Ethernet is the only >>>>>> reasonable instrument bus. >>>>>> >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>> Sure, unless you need timing coherence between instruments. >>>> The IEEE-1588 protocol can sync boxes to within nanoseconds over >>>> ethernet >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Time_Protocol >>>> >>>> >>>>> Also there's all this nice stuff around that's GPIB & RS232. >>>> It's also nice when an instrument has a web-page interface, and can be >>>> telnet-ed to, without any PC plugin boards or drivers. Or distance >>>> limits. >>>> >>> Hey, then you could sit there at Zeitgeist all day long and run it all >>> via a 3G phone :-) >>> >> >> I guess future instruments will be Twitter compatible. >> > >Yeah, even IEEE fell for that. An engineer's organization, of all >places. Pathetic. And since when are engineers not people with all their follies?
From: JosephKK on 16 Oct 2009 00:38 On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:57:47 +0100, Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >krw wrote: >> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 17:42:58 -0700 (PDT), a7yvm109gf5d1(a)netzero.com >> wrote: >> >>> On Oct 9, 7:09 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> GPIB is terrible. The topper happened a long time ago, after I had just >>>> laid new carpet. Connector slipped off, the garden hose cable >>>> ricocheted, hit my coffee mug which was half full ... *THWACK* ... flew >>> Can you use ribbon cable? I've got a vintage GPIB controller here that >>> works on the Commodore 64. I've never tested it but it comes with a >>> ribbon cable. > >>> I suppose you lose stackability and probably some performance with >>> ribbon. > >Commodore 64 was pretty slow. You had to work very hard to get full >speed out of GPIB with the early PCs and micros. HP had a near monopoly >on it in the early days. All the chipsets had their little quirks. > >It definitely worked better with the right grade of cables and you >could have them custom made to lengths well beyond what the standard >allowed and it would still work OK at speed. A lot of older instruments >still use it but Ethernet and USB have largely supplanted it now. >> >> There is no performance to give up. It was a lucky day when GPIB >> worked at all. ...and often the stackabiity was need *to* get it to >> work. What a nightmare. > >Rubbish. In it's day GPIB and IEE488 was a pretty much rock solid >workhorse and way ahead of its time. It degraded fairly gracefully >because of the handshake mechanism. I never much liked IEEE488.2 tho. > >An insulating protector on the back of the stackable plug was wise in a >a marginally hostile environment with eg metal swarf or acidic mists. It >survived remarkably well even with serious HV and flashovers. > >The only thing wrong was that as Joerg mentions the GPIB cable was rigid >like garden hose and the heavy connectors were inclined to knock things >off the desk if screws came loose. Also that the leverage of a multiply >stacked connector was another way people wrecked kit. > >ISTR The other amusement was that the pcb IEEE488 connector had unusual >pinout ordering which caught out our circuit layout guy. > >Regards, >Martin Brown Once upon a time i put a GPIB interface, a real time clock, and a FDC on a SYM-1 (1 MHz 6502) and got it all working with ROM basic. It was to automatically run a dielectrometer with the sample in a fixture in a temperature chamber, with data logging. I used the MC 68488, and a PIO with the TI line driver chips. Would rather have used either the uPD7210 with the TI drivers or the Fairchild 96488.
From: Spehro Pefhany on 16 Oct 2009 00:49
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:09:42 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:28:06 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:58:40 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:05:12 -0700, Jim Thompson >>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:52:59 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 02:33:18 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>>>><mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:18:14 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless(a)electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> >> Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>> >>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> >>>> a7yvm109gf5d1(a)netzero.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>> Well I got a HP 5316A universal counter, with the 1GHz channel and the >>>>>>> >>>>> OCXO. >>>>>>> >>>>> Very nice, I think. Although I suppose I still have the problem of not >>>>>>> >>>>> knowing exactly the frequency of the OCXO is, after all there are >>>>>>> >>>>> coarse and fine adjustments on the can... >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> Well, there is WWV :-) >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> Eh, still, I'm pretty happy with the cheap stuff you can get with a >>>>>>> >>>>> bit of patience. >>>>>>> >>>>> I think that I will build a 10V "standard" from my AD588s, in a nice >>>>>>> >>>>> box. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> So, what kind of connectivity do you guys have in yuor lab? Is >>>>>>> >>>>> everything GPIB, USB, or some mix? >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> A mix, and that's unavoidable. Older gear that is irreplaceable >>>>>>> >>>> (because they simply don't make some of the good stuff anymore) >>>>>>> >>>> inevitably comes with those dreaded HPIB garden hose connections. The >>>>>>> >>>> logic analyzer and some other gear I rarely use is from the RS232 >>>>>>> >>>> era. Modern gear like the DSO is USB. And I will absolutely not have >>>>>>> >>>> HPIB garden hoses here anymore. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> So, there is a Prologix HPIB/USB adaptor, an RS232/USB adaptor plus >>>>>>> >>>> the traditional USB spreader octopus. I raised the equipment rack by >>>>>>> >>>> 1-1/2" to make all that fit underneath, plus scope probes, chargers, >>>>>>> >>>> international outlets, a flat vise and whatever else is needed during >>>>>>> >>>> lab work. Nice thing is, a laptop can now talk to all the important >>>>>>> >>>> boxes. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> I'm so used to GPIB that I'm probably not a good example. It's a >>>>>>> >>> great deal nicer than RS232, and given that it's been around so long, >>>>>>> >>> I don't have to worry much about OSes not supporting it in >>>>>>> >>> detail--unlike USB. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> GPIB is terrible. The topper happened a long time ago, after I had just >>>>>>> >> laid new carpet. Connector slipped off, the garden hose cable >>>>>>> >> ricocheted, hit my coffee mug which was half full ... *THWACK* ... flew >>>>>>> >> off and crashed onto new carpet. That was the end of GPIB for me. There >>>>>>> >> sure are better busses out there. I used to prefer RS232 but now >>>>>>> >> everything is USB. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> A nice Prologix GPIB-Ethernet is next on my list. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> If you have to use equipment at clients a lot and its legacy HP stuff >>>>>>> >> the USB version is very practical. Plug it in, hit print on the >>>>>>> >> analyzer, done. But Abdul (the Prologix designer) and I had to iron out >>>>>>> >> a bias problem before it liked HP legacy gear. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >Spilling coffee is a criticism of a bus? GPIB can do about 1 MB/s when >>>>>>> >externally clocked, which is better than good enough for most things I >>>>>>> >need to do in the lab, and if I tighten the screws I can even keep my >>>>>>> >coffee and my carpet. ;) >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >Cheers >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >Phil Hobbs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joerg is accident prone... always *PHUT*ing ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> He always has one *PHUT* in the grave... >>>>> >>>>> Very good! >>>> >>>>We need to have an SED get-together. If I hosted it, say in April, >>>>when AZ is absolutely delightful weather-wise, who would come? >>> >>>I'd have to think about it. It's quite a trip to roast weenies. >> >>Only "weenies" I'd roast would be liberals ;-) With that large a BBQ, you've obviously been expecting trouble. >>We might possibly have "Brats"... more likely ribs and steaks. >> >>And kegs... for the youngsters, vino de casa for the adults ;-) >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >And the path would take me past Eschbach's (a first class German >butcher shop, compleat with smokehouse). Mmmm yer making me hungry... I just lobbied the Frau to consider preparing Kassler(sp?) mit sauerkraut in white wine und spaetzle. That's for next week, I'm not waiting 'til April. ;-) |