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From: Sylvain Robitaille on 26 Nov 2009 11:30 On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:28:17 GMT, Mike Jones wrote: > Contrary to some occasionally amusing urban myths, Vi is not an > editor. Its a puzzle game /disguised/ as an editor. Entertaining and > even useful to those who have brains capable of performing the > hoop-jumping required to pilot such a beast, but a not-very-funny > practical joke to those who require their "OMG! Where is the text > editor?" save-the-day tool to "just ****ing WORK FFS!" ... In this light, think of vi as more of an entrance exam. Nano is the remedial class! ;-) > BTW, banging your head against a wall is not a good idea, no matter > how many people do it, "Because the wall is there". ;\ Dumbing down something as simple as a text editor, causing those with years (or perhaps even decades) of real experience with the power of a proper text editor, to bang their heads against walls trying make the crippled editor do things that are nice and simple in the real editor, in the interest of protecting the foreheads of those more used to "edit" or "notepad", would be perhaps "misguided". -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sylvain Robitaille syl(a)encs.concordia.ca Systems analyst / AITS Concordia University Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science Montreal, Quebec, Canada ----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith Keller on 26 Nov 2009 12:53 On 2009-11-26, Res <res(a)ausics.net> wrote: > > He's kind of open to dicscussion, I had talked to him about a few programs > I think should be in it by default (such as postfix, dovecot, and I threw > in pureftpd as well for measure), he suggested those in slackbuilds, I > then suggested that they are very mainstream programs and it would be > beneficial to have them in the offical release, like most every other > distro does (at least with postfix and dovecot), I guess we'll know in > time if he deicdes to, but since that was over a month ago and there's no > appearance in -current I dare say he isn't going to in the near future. Wow, learn how to split into multiple sentences! Pat is likely reluctant to include postfix and dovecot because they would replace sendmail and UW imapd, and he has often not wanted to pull the rug out from people already relying on existing tools. Having these in Slackbuilds (or extras/) makes a lot of sense. Though I can certainly see a case for replacing the old and creaky UW imapd with dovecot in a future major release. --keith -- kkeller-usenet(a)wombat.san-francisco.ca.us (try just my userid to email me) AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt see X- headers for PGP signature information
From: Keith Keller on 26 Nov 2009 12:49 On 2009-11-26, Mike Jones <Not(a)Arizona.Bay> wrote: > > Contrary to some occasionally amusing urban myths, Vi is not an editor. > Its a puzzle game /disguised/ as an editor. vi is a very powerful editor once you know it. nano is an entry-level editor. Both can be useful in their own context, and be disastrous in the other's context. Your whinging about how difficult vi is to use is not helpful. (And for all the joking I do about "DEATH TO EMACS!!!", emacs is also a very powerful editor once you know it. All sysadmins beyond beginner should learn at least one of these two editors.) Is vi difficult to use *for a beginner*? Of course! And I would not recommend it to everyone; I support users who will never use it, because they have no need for it. > So, Nano should be the default editor on EVERYTHING, including kettles. That is like saying all cars should be 2wd automatics. > I still use it [MC] as my default file manager. Its works nearly anywhere. cd and ls work on every usable OS. ;-) --keith -- kkeller-usenet(a)wombat.san-francisco.ca.us (try just my userid to email me) AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt see X- headers for PGP signature information
From: Loki Harfagr on 26 Nov 2009 13:07 Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:15:27 +0000, Dan C did cat : > On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:46:53 +0000, Mike Jones wrote: > >> Responding to Sylvain Robitaille: >> .... > >> Maybe its just me and a few other species similar to humans, but if I >> wanted to confuse and frustrate somebody, I'd sit them down with a >> fixed terminal and only Vi to get their tasks done. If I wanted to make >> life hell, I'd give them a deadline too. >> >> Crisis plus deadline plus Vi. Shudder! >:| vim becomes quite useable when you help 'him' to behave, old e.g.: $ alias vim=' vim -u NONE' > It helps to have an IQ above room temperature. How deceiving! until then I thought you were using the Fahrenheit scale ;->
From: Loki Harfagr on 26 Nov 2009 14:05
Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:53:35 -0800, Keith Keller did cat : > On 2009-11-26, Res <res(a)ausics.net> wrote: >> >> He's kind of open to dicscussion, I had talked to him about a few >> programs I think should be in it by default (such as postfix, dovecot, >> and I threw in pureftpd as well for measure), he suggested those in >> slackbuilds, I then suggested that they are very mainstream programs >> and it would be beneficial to have them in the offical release, like >> most every other distro does (at least with postfix and dovecot), I >> guess we'll know in time if he deicdes to, but since that was over a >> month ago and there's no appearance in -current I dare say he isn't >> going to in the near future. > > Wow, learn how to split into multiple sentences! Well, Res is too much used to directly 'speak' in .m4 ;-) > > Pat is likely reluctant to include postfix and dovecot because they > would replace sendmail and UW imapd, and he has often not wanted to pull > the rug out from people already relying on existing tools. I second this advice and I also second the opinion and also mostly second the following opinion ,-) > Having these > in Slackbuilds (or extras/) makes a lot of sense. Though I can > certainly see a case for replacing the old and creaky UW imapd with > dovecot in a future major release. Note please that UW may be creaky because old but not so crappy and it's only since version 1.1+ that dovecot is making a clean test while the oldie UW was still quite "correct" :-) (synth. report on http://imapwiki.org/ImapTest/ServerStatus) Now, for the SMTP part (which weighs around 3/4 of my work) all I can say is that at the time I had to make the choice for a "distro" when the client wanted FLOSS I chosed Slackware not only because it was quite close to BSD (discarded at the time just because none of their flavor had support for the cpq array included in the servers already bought by the company section which was in charge of these usual recurrent mistakes in the order of events and ordered before the events) AND it bear the full clean sendmail instead of the other main "distros" which at the time went fuzzy in the knees and jumped on trends like posfix or exim or even more unusable unsignificant others ,-> So, I'm not against the idea of a postfix extra package but the main line must keep solid. Of course this advice may change when sm-X will out but until then that's still speculations on a moving specs spectre. |