1000 km range electric car !
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From: Alex P. on 31 May 2010 04:14 "Tom" <Not(a)chance.com> ha scritto nel messaggio news:86er7hFu52U1(a)mid.individual.net... > > "J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet(a)cox.net> wrote in message > news:htrhuk11vgf(a)news6.newsguy.com... >> On 5/29/2010 11:32 AM, Tom wrote: >>> "T. Keating"<tkusenet(a)ktcnslt.com> wrote in message >>> news:5l2206t7h8cd8l1og97n5jumv5ecj6pvaa(a)4ax.com... >>>> On Sat, 29 May 2010 07:39:22 GMT, "Alex P."<alexp(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> As for extended range, once enough EV's are on the road I expect our >>>> society will produce a small low drag trailer with extra cargo space >>>> and a small gas/diesel generator& fuel tank. I would not be >>>> surprised if we end up renting them out like U-haul trailers.. >>>> >>> >>> This is a cracking idea. >>> >>> This is such a good idea that if it'd have been my idea I would have >>> kept >>> my mouth shut about it and touted it around the larger EV companies. >>> Diesel >>> gennies can be pretty efficient run at a constant speed, but bloody >>> annoying >>> to have to listen to. Having it in a trailer (perhaps with an automatic >>> start function) is definitely the right place to have it, and the >>> ability to >>> hire it as and when needed would make good sense to the majority of >>> people >>> who would only need the extra range a few times a year. >> >> Now there's a brilliant solution, burn diesel fuel in an inefficient >> generator in order to take a trip. >> >> Sorry, but if you can't drive it from NY to LA conveniently without >> having to have a trailer hitch installed and rent a generator trailer or >> drive 60 miles and spend the night while it recharges it's a niche >> product. People who can afford several cars might go for it but very few >> people will rely on such a thing for their primary transportation. >> > > Yes that's right, burn diesel fuel 4 or 5 times per year in an inefficient > generator, rather than burn it every day in an inefficient car engine Did you mean here "efficient generator" ? I' m not sure that even the most efficient generator using petrol fuels even used at optimal fixed regimes can be much more efficient and lighter than a good diesel or IC engine
From: Alex P. on 31 May 2010 04:33 <jimp(a)specsol.spam.sux.com> ha scritto nel messaggio news:ko08d7-oq9.ln1(a)mail.specsol.com... > In sci.physics Alex P. <alexp(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> "T. Keating" <tkusenet(a)ktcnslt.com> ha scritto nel messaggio >> news:5l2206t7h8cd8l1og97n5jumv5ecj6pvaa(a)4ax.com... >>> On Sat, 29 May 2010 07:39:22 GMT, "Alex P." <alexp(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>"T. Keating" <tkusenet(a)ktcnslt.com> ha scritto nel messaggio >>>>news:6bi00619peocks03vfclnbhcopvld8uleg(a)4ax.com... >>>>> On Fri, 28 May 2010 15:16:48 GMT, "Alex P." <alexp(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> soc newsgroups snipped in this reply.. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>"Helmut Wabnig" <hwabnig@ .- --- -. dotat> ha scritto nel messaggio >>>>>>news:5n7sv5tumujj5jkts64098t8hgq5aq0uuv(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>> On Wed, 26 May 2010 22:00:53 GMT, habshi(a)anony.net wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>photo on >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://www.ecofriend.org/entry/mira-ev-shatters-previous-record-by-running-more-than-1000km-on-a-single-charge/ >>>>>>>>Cant find youtube video >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Amazing stuff! Now wind and solar energy will supply all our >>>>>>>>transport >>>>>>>>needs as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Calculate! >>>>>>> Battery + motor efficiency, >>>>>>> (how much of the fed charge do you get back as drive) >>>>>>> and then, >>>>>>> how many nuclear power plants will be needed to charge >>>>>>> all electric vehicles. >>>>>> >>>>>>It takes about 15 to 20 kWh to power an average user scale >>>>>>electric/plugin >>>>>>vehicle for about 100 km. In the US, where the distance travelled for >>>>> >>>>> I doubt that, newer EV's will consume 100 to 200 Wh per mile or 6.3 to >>>>> 12.6 kWh per 100km. >>>> >>>>Yes, but the performances are very different than current US vehicles >>>>fleet >>>>(not >>>>I live there nor I'm interested in it), if you don't want to do an >>>>orange >>>>and apples comparison these are the right numbers indeed, it' s very >>>>difficult to >>>>go down to less than 15 kWh per 100 kWh and even something near 20 kWh >>>>per >>>>100 km is a more reasonable figure >>> >>> The BAU model is DEAD... Either our society will adapt to >>> smaller/lighter EV's or it will do without fully enclosed personal >>> transportation. >> >> That' s not a BAU model at all, what I support is at least a western >> European standard (where it's quite normal a vehicle has a fuel economy >> of >> 15 or 20 km per liter of petrol fuel, or 35-50 miles per gallon). For >> example the new tesla S (at a still very high price of about 50k $, but >> declining from the 100k $ of the first models) uses slightly more than >> 16 >> kWh per 100 km with a storage cell of 42 kWh and a range of about 250 km. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S >> Instead, with your kind of argument we could use only bikes at use no >> energy >> at all! >> On the other hand, we can evn achieve enormous energy savings with a >> efficient electrification of both personal and collective transportation >> (including goods) with tram, metros, trains, etc...and plugins and >> battery >> electric vehicles and home heating/conditioning with high performance >> electric heat pumps (including ground source geothermal ones, for colder >> climates) > > A Honda Civic gets about 30 MPG and costs less than $20K. That' s obviously right in the US, but where, particurally in western Europe, and when gasoline price is usually in the range of 8-10 $ per gallon equivalent, has much more sense to buy a 30 or 40k $ car capable of travelling 40 miles or 65 km without any liquid fuels using cheap (and possibly) clean electricity or at most in a mixed electric/gasoline trip to get more than 100 mpg equivalent
From: jimp on 31 May 2010 12:57 Alex P. <alexp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Is this a real problem ? My opinion is that electric vehicles can be (and > *should* be for economics reasons and battery life concerns) easily charged > very slowly overnight with cheap off-peak electricity That's great as long as it is on a timer set to charge after about 9 PM where the off-peak begins and you never have an emergency and need to go somewhere before morning or even want to go to a movie. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply.
From: jimp on 31 May 2010 13:09 Alex P. <alexp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > That' s obviously right in the US, but where, particurally in western > Europe, and when gasoline price is usually in the range of 8-10 $ per gallon > equivalent, has much more sense to buy a 30 or 40k $ car capable of > travelling 40 miles or 65 km without any liquid fuels using cheap (and > possibly) clean electricity or at most in a mixed electric/gasoline trip to > get more than 100 mpg equivalent It would make much more sense to get rid of the government that imposed the confiscatory taxes on gasoline. At $9/gal and a car life of 75,000 miles, you would spend $22,500 on gas, and less than $20,000 for the car, not counting maintenance. If you add on the extra taxes, insurance, and finance charges for the $30k to $40k electric vehicle, the numbers just get worse. The bottom line is, even with the absud gas taxes in the EU, the total spent is about the same for both cases except you've traded off a very capable vehicle for a very marginal one. If you buy something smaller, cheaper, and with higher mileage than a Civic, and there are many to choose from, it gets even worse. Doing it in the US is just pissing money away. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply.
From: Tom on 31 May 2010 13:31
"Alex P." <alexp(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:WdKMn.63678$Ua.11190(a)twister2.libero.it... > > "Tom" <Not(a)chance.com> ha scritto nel messaggio > news:86er7hFu52U1(a)mid.individual.net... >> >>> >> >> Yes that's right, burn diesel fuel 4 or 5 times per year in an >> inefficient >> generator, rather than burn it every day in an inefficient car engine > > Did you mean here "efficient generator" ? I' m not sure that even the most > efficient generator using petrol fuels even used at optimal fixed regimes > can be much more efficient and lighter than a good diesel or IC engine No, no generator is particularly efficient especially converting mechanical energy into electrical and back into mechanical. My point was that it would be better to use a diesel generator as auxiliary power on the few times per year that I need the extra range, rather than use an internal combustion engine every day. Tom |