$5,000 Retro Fit Hybrid Kit
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From: John Larkin on 12 Nov 2009 20:28 On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:57:09 -0800 (PST), Bret Cahill <BretCahill(a)peoplepc.com> wrote: >> >Even the prototype is only $100K. >> >> >http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218400113&cid... >> >> >Leave the big engine in there for the road trips. >> >> >The unsprung weight doubles and the batteries might not always be near >> >the original design center of mass but aside from that it's a really >> >good idea. >> >> >Bret Cahill >> >> Install one on your car and report back. > >I'm in love with the idea. I wonder how he plans to have the controls (gas pedal, brakes, engine throttle, tranny, abs, engine control computer) interact with the new wheel motors. Regen braking will get interesting. Or what it might do the existing warranty and regulatory compliance certs. Sounds like a huge bag-o-worms. Let's check back in a few years. Odds are it will be dead and gone, as 99.9% of such ideas are. Hybrids mainly get good mileage not because they have good drive trains, but because they are ugly and aerodynamic. They do pay a big price in battery weight. > >It will be the most cost effective way to commute in a couple years >yet you'll still be able to haul your boat over the mountains. > >The flexibility of adding anyone's new batteries as they become >commercially available is another advantage over conventional hybrids. > >A big alternator and an electric ac compressor would be another plus. >Maybe they could even tweak conventional [large rpm range] engines to >run at an optimum speed when recharging. > >You're sitting in traffic going nowhere. It's 115 F outside but the >ac is on and the main engine isn't running, at least not for a long >period of time. I wonder about the economics of having two gas engines, the main one and a much smaller one for accessories and low-speed cruising. Batteries are terrible things. John
From: John Larkin on 12 Nov 2009 22:41 On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:12:39 -0500, "Paul E. Schoen" <paul(a)peschoen.com> wrote: > >"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill(a)aol.com> wrote in message >news:9d919c62-e414-4a75-9838-28e9513544c9(a)m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> Even the prototype is only $100K. >> >> http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218400113&cid=NL_planet >> >> Leave the big engine in there for the road trips. >> >> The unsprung weight doubles and the batteries might not always be near >> the original design center of mass but aside from that it's a really >> good idea. > >I came up with a similar idea a few years ago. > >http://www.smart.net/~pstech/SHAMPAC.htm > >It was too big a project for me alone and I had other priorities. There was >also the problem of making an electric motor that had sufficient torque and >speed for direct drive requirements, and I had planned to use a reduction >chain drive, but that added some mechanical engineering challenges. But I >found wheel hub motors available and in-use. And I found another website >that described how to replace the alternator with a larger motor/generator >which could be used to provide additional power from a battery bank and >also be used for regenerative braking. But that was not very efficient >because there was no easy way to unload the ICE to run on electric power >alone. > >I recently saw the movie "End of Suburbia" http://www.endofsuburbia.com/ >which gives a lot of insight into how we in the US got into the situation >we are now in, and the ramifications of "Peak Oil", which is where we are >now or will be in a few years. Peak oil is always a few years ahead. Cheap energy fueled the flight to the >suburbs and the inherently wasteful concept of long commutes and sprawling >individual houses for small families and individuals. Cheap oil changed a predominantly rural, farming society into a primarily urban one. Auto makers and oil >companies made more profits as such a lifestyle became more popular. Of course. In the process they made us far, far more efficient and prosperous and healthy than we had been. But >there is a finite amount of oil in the ground, and even though we are >unlikely to "run out" suddenly like draining a gas tank, it will become >increasingly costly to extract, and price will rise exponentially as demand >continues to increase, until most people simply will not have the money to >afford it. They will buy less as the price increases. This will happen slowly, and people will adapt. > >The economy relies on increased growth which is untenable globally, so we >will need to adapt to an economy based on sustainable moderation and >reduction of spending. Our economy as presently configured is doomed >because it depends on continued sales of items that are based on cheap >energy, materials, transportation, and labor. Much of the economy is about >trade in items that are not essential and based on rapid obsolescence to be >discarded and replaced. But we may very well. in our lifetimes, see a point >where it will become difficult for most people to afford the essential >food, clothing, shelter, and heating that are now taken for granted. Food and clothing in the USA are incredibly cheap; go to a Wal-Mart and see. Houses are available in Detroit for $1. John
From: leonard78sp on 12 Nov 2009 22:58 On Nov 10, 10:31 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...(a)aol.com> wrote: > Even the prototype is only $100K. > > http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218400113&cid.... > > Leave the big engine in there for the road trips. > > The unsprung weight doubles and the batteries might not always be near > the original design center of mass but aside from that it's a really > good idea. > > Bret Cahill It is a stupid idea suitable only for men who have money to burn and time to waste. Political correctness is destroying Europe. America will be the next down the PC tube greased by academic idiots like Scott Erb, Noam Chumpsky, and Ward Churchill, and Slick Willy & Hilly, Algore & Pelosi, and now Barak Hussein Muhammad Obama, too.
From: Brent on 13 Nov 2009 10:54 On 2009-11-13, leonard78sp(a)gmail.com <leonard78sp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Nov 10, 10:31?am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...(a)aol.com> wrote: >> Even the prototype is only $100K. >> >> http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218400113&cid... >> >> Leave the big engine in there for the road trips. >> >> The unsprung weight doubles and the batteries might not always be near >> the original design center of mass but aside from that it's a really >> good idea. "What makes our approach different is we don't need to modify anything in existing vehicles to turn them into a hybrid," said Perry. "We install the motor in the space between the brake mechanism and the hub without any other modifications." I wish the image had the resolution to be readable, but that system looks like it would push the wheels out (by going between the wheel and the brake) and disturb the suspension geometry that would require other changes. The car would not drive well with all the battery weight and changed suspension geometry without numerous other changes. If there is something that hangs on the inboard side it might work by making FWD cars be RWD cars in electric mode, but it would interfere with drive shafts in the front on FWD cars and the rear axle or drive shafts on RWD cars. Front hubs or spindles on RWD cars won't accept something hanging inside the brake very well in most cases.
From: leonard78sp on 13 Nov 2009 13:40
On Nov 12, 10:41 pm, John Larkin <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> .wrote: > On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:12:39 -0500, "Paul E. Schoen" > Peak oil is always a few years ahead. "Peak Oil" at the present time, has evolved from a production modeling resource into a marketing scam. It worked quite well in 1956 to accurately predict that United States oil production would peak between 1965 and 1970. But when Hubbert turned to foreign sources he lost his way not understanding the way Arabs and Russians do business, Unquestionably, Peak Oil's models were responsible for the surge in prices for crude in the futures markets. Added to that the API's reluctance to accept the concept of "abiotic oil" allowed the Sa'uds and Russians to conceal their increased resources by drilling their old unproductive holes deeper. > Cheap energy fueled the flight to the > >suburbs and the inherently wasteful concept of long commutes and sprawling > >individual houses for small families and individuals. > > Cheap oil changed a predominantly rural, farming society into a > primarily urban one. > > Auto makers and oil > >companies made more profits as such a lifestyle became more popular. > > Of course. In the process they made us far, far more efficient and > prosperous and healthy than we had been. > > But > >there is a finite amount of oil in the ground, Bullshit!!!! There is ONE well in the south Atlantic (still under development) that has reserves sufficient to supply USA with all its' needs for centuries. In neighbouring fields, Exxon, BP, China, Saudi Arabia, etc, are all drilling 10 miles below the surface. Want to know more Google for "Tupi", Petrobras, Sustainable oil, "Deep Hot Biosphere" ... and even though we are > >unlikely to "run out" suddenly like draining a gas tank, it will become > >increasingly costly to extract, and price will rise exponentially as demand > >continues to increase, until most people simply will not have the money to > >afford it. BULLSHIT!! > They will buy less as the price increases. This will happen slowly, > and people will adapt. |