8 bit microcontroller market
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From: Yuriy K. on 6 Sep 2006 20:54 Frank Bemelman wrote: > How long ago did you design it? 20 years ago there was little > other choice than 8051. Well, there still was 8048... > It was already sort of a microcontroller, > even though it needs external ram/rom. Ten years ago - still > a valid choice, but the arena is getting smaller and smaller > for the 8051. I agree it can still be a very valid choice today, > for typically very less demanding tasks. It would be hard to create architecture worse than x51 today. Limited stack, single pointer, three different type of data memory, no thought at all about high-level language, 12 clocks per cycle, etc. By any rules it should be dead long ago... -- WBR, Yuriy. "Resistance is futile"
From: Yuriy K. on 6 Sep 2006 21:03 Joerg wrote: >>>> Programmer who can handle only >>>> 8051 core shall be fired for the incompetence. >>> >>> That's not how managers in the industry think here in California and >>> those are the folks who make most decisions. >> >> Poor managers. Micromanagement is a very, very counterproductive option. >> > > Has nothing to do with micro management. This is exactly what manager selecting CPU core is doing. >> BTW, how many managers were polled to get these results? >> > No need to for me. I live here :-) OK, this is a single person opinion. That's OK, too. > Our apps are a lot more demanding. Realtime stuff in assembler, other > designs in C. Necessity to use assembler usually points to the inadequate processor selection. >> A lot of people have better food without ever heard such meaningless >> words as 2n3904, etc. :-P > > So, you think a 2N3904 is meaningless? Interesting. Open some gadgets > and look inside. My designs that contain a lot of such discretes > generate comfortable profit margins for my clients. :) These people never heard word transistor either. > And here I don't mean toys only. Furnace controllers, HVAC controllers, > etc. I.e. very simple stuff. >>> To the point where many fresh graduates are not even able >>> to understand my designs anymore. >> >> Ironically, there are at least two possible reason for that... >> > Which would be? Either fresh graduates are incompetent, or the designs. -- WBR, Yuriy. "Resistance is futile"
From: Yuriy K. on 6 Sep 2006 21:10 Joerg wrote: >>> I'd never buy a car with dozens of controllers. >> >> Still driving old carb. engine around? 8-[] >> > > Mits Montero four-cylinder, stick shift. Simple, never breaks down, good > enough for me :-) 1982? Carb. engine? No injectors? No ECU? Everything manual? >> Very good example. I vote for today's software over any 10-years old. >> And definitely over any 25-years old software... >> > > Ok, I am of opposite opinion here. Simply based on speed and number of > crashes. Hmm... Still using CP/M to develop 8051 software? -- WBR, Yuriy. "Resistance is futile"
From: John F on 6 Sep 2006 22:23 Yuriy K. wrote: > Joerg wrote: >> Our apps are a lot more demanding. Realtime stuff in assembler, >> other >> designs in C. > > Necessity to use assembler usually points to the inadequate > processor > selection. You can't mean what you are saying here. I even write ASM on high speed DSPs to get the best out of the material. If you write an interrupt-routine in C it says that you don't care about timing at all. That's it. It shows your ignorance to hard realtime constraints. Compiler- and optimisation-independent timing is _very_ important. >>> A lot of people have better food without ever heard such >>> meaningless >>> words as 2n3904, etc. :-P >> >> So, you think a 2N3904 is meaningless? Interesting. Open some >> gadgets >> and look inside. My designs that contain a lot of such discretes >> generate comfortable profit margins for my clients. > > :) These people never heard word transistor either. That's not true. I always give them a detailed introduction to my designs. >> And here I don't mean toys only. Furnace controllers, HVAC >> controllers, etc. > > I.e. very simple stuff. Not really. Devil is in details :-) -- Johannes You can have it: Quick, Accurate, Inexpensive. Pick two.
From: Ian Bell on 6 Sep 2006 16:13
linnix wrote: > > Sometimes, older stuffs are better. On my desk, there are lots of > developments tools connected to the windown 98 pc via rs232. At a > corner, there is a MSP430 development kits (require XP/USB) sitting > there, waiting for one of two things: 1. I upgrade to XP or 2. TI > downgrade to Win98/rs232. I don't see either one happening soon. Thanks for that little gem. it made my day. Cheers Ian |