California schools $120M solar project
in [Design]
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From: krw on 2 Jun 2010 23:41 On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 21:47:48 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > >Joel Koltner wrote: >> >> "Michael" <mrdarrett(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:73ea42e6-fd75-41b7-89c4-593b613accc1(a)a20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com... >> On Jun 2, 2:19 pm, "m...(a)sushi.com" <m...(a)sushi.com> wrote: >> > I bought a rechargeable drill from them awhile back, and the NiCd >> > battery charger doesn't even have a sensor telling when charging is >> > done. You have to guess when it's done charging. >> >> It's probably just a transformer->rectifier->resistor->battery, set to charge >> at a C/10 rate or thereabouts. >> >> So you just wait ~12 hours or so and you're guaranteed it's fully charged -- >> no guessing necessary. :-) >> >> There was a time, not that long ago, when most battery chargers were this, um, >> "featureless!" >> >> > Dad wanted to buy same drill (on sale for $15); I talked him out of >> > it. >> >> Sounds like it might be worth $15, actually... >> >> I think Harbor Freight is a good example of (1) you tend to get what you pay >> for and (2) advertising leads many people to believe they need a lot more than >> they really do. Their "value for the dollar" is actually pretty good -- >> unlike a well-known brand name where the "image" can sometimes be much >> flashier than what you're really getting (counting on many people never >> recognizing as much -- see #2), with Harbor Freight it's pretty clear exactly >> how rugged (or not) the item you're purchasing is. >> >> If you really want to impress your dad, get him one of these: >> http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-1676-6-2-Inch-Joist-Drill/dp/B00005OP5S > > > I see a lot of people buying tools for their business at Harbor >Freight, and at Northern Tools. They don't complain about the quality, >they complain that people steal their tools. Right. No one would steal a HF tool. <rdh> BTW, I have an order with them now for a portable dust collector ($70) and a wide-crown pneumatic stapler ($20). They didn't have them on sale in the store in Dothan Saturday.
From: Michael on 3 Jun 2010 01:07 On Jun 2, 6:40 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > Michael wrote: > > > On Jun 1, 2:53 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> > > wrote: > > > z wrote: > > > > > "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> wrote in > > > >news:YcKdnVzaNLRnrJjRnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com: > > > > > > vaughn wrote: > > > > > >> "Sylvia Else" <syl...(a)not.here.invalid> wrote in message > > > > >>news:86j7pjF9i7U1(a)mid.individual.net... > > > > > >> > I don't believe in these alleged economies of scale. Solar panels > > > > >> > already represent a large industry. The economies of scale, such as > > > > >> > they are, have already been obtained. > > > > > >> Not so, especially not so at the consumer level. At the consumer > > > > >> level PV panels remain a nitch product, so lack of retail competition > > > > >> and huge shipping costs because of a lack of any local distribution > > > > >> channel presents significant barriers. > > > > > >> Vaughn > > > > > > Harbor Freight sells several panels & systems. They do mail order > > > > > and have a lot of retail stores in the US. > > > > > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?category=&q=...> > > > > > OUCH! the larger panels there are 6-8 dollars a watt > > > > And no shipping if you buy them at a local store. > > > Right... the store pays the shipping and passes the cost right on to > > the customer. :D > > Yes, but at a rate that is much lower than having a single item > shipped to your home. They get tractor trailer loads of product > delievered on a regular basis. You should see their back room, right > after they unload a trailer. Good point! > > BTW, that 45 watt panel went on sale today for 169.99 Item number > 90599, limit one, with coupon. That's $80 off their regular price. > > -- > Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to > have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
From: Sylvia Else on 3 Jun 2010 03:37 On 2/06/2010 11:03 PM, Bill Sloman wrote: > On Jun 1, 3:58 am, Sylvia Else<syl...(a)not.here.invalid> wrote: >> On 1/06/2010 12:25 AM,Bill Slomanwrote: >> >> >> >>> On May 31, 1:38 pm, PeterD<pet...(a)hipson.net> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 31 May 2010 06:02:23 -0500, "amdx"<a...(a)knology.net> wrote: >>>>> Yesterday I heard a radio story about the California School district >>>>> spending $120 million to put solar energy in/on schools. >>>>> I did a Google search and can't find any info. >>>>> The numbers I heard didn't seem cost effective, >>>>> so I'm curious. >>>>> Anybody know more about it? >>>>> Mike >> >>>> I believe they gave $119 million to Al Gore's efforts, and spent the >>>> remaining million on publicity. >> >>> The request was for information about what the California School >>> District has done, not an invitation for you to exercise your >>> incompetent imagination. >> >>> Admittedly, anyone asking for information about a political solar >>> energy initiative here should expect to get answers drawn from the >>> imagination of our resident right-wing nit-wits. >> >>> A quick google picked upt these initiatives >> >>> http://solar.coolerplanet.com/News/8110902-fremont-california-school-... >> >>> http://www.chevronenergy.com/case_studies/sjusd.asp >> >>> which do seem to involve expenditure of the order of $120M. >> >>> At the moment solar energy is only cost-effective if you figure in the >>> uncosted consequences of the CO2 emissions associated with fossil >>> fueled energy generation. Political initiatives that subsidise solar >>> energy generation are designed to fill in that gap, and often a bit >>> more beside, since increasing the market for solar energy >>> installations helps the economies of scale, >> >> I don't believe in these alleged economies of scale. Solar panels >> already represent a large industry. The economies of scale, such as they >> are, have already been obtained. > > The "economies of scale" aren't just the simple stuff, such as when > you ship 100,000 units a year it becomes worth your while to put most > of the electronics into an ASIC. It covers the sort of developments > where people think that the market is big enough to justify developing > a completely different way of making solar cells. Inventing a different technology is not an economy of scale, and there's no guarantee that it will materialise. > > This sort of development is highly speculative and costs tens to > hundreds of millions of dollars by the time you've turned it into a > production line - nobody invests that kind of money until they are > pretty confident about the eventual market. > > Economists don't understand any of the technical details - they just > know that as the market for a product expands, the unit cost tends to > halve for every ten-fold expansion in production volume. > > The first computer I ever worked with hands-on was a PDP-8. It cost > something like ten times what I was being paid per year at the time. > Nowadays there are single chip processors that are moe powerful that > sell for about what I'd earn in a minute if I could persuade someone > to hime me. Solar panels need area in a way that processors don't, but > they are going to get a lot cheaper to make and a lot easier to mount > (perhaps as stick-on films). > > -- > Bill Sloman, Nijmegen So why do car bateries still cost so much? Sylvia.
From: Michael A. Terrell on 3 Jun 2010 05:48 "krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote: > > On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 21:47:48 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" > <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > > > >Joel Koltner wrote: > >> > >> "Michael" <mrdarrett(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > >> news:73ea42e6-fd75-41b7-89c4-593b613accc1(a)a20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com... > >> On Jun 2, 2:19 pm, "m...(a)sushi.com" <m...(a)sushi.com> wrote: > >> > I bought a rechargeable drill from them awhile back, and the NiCd > >> > battery charger doesn't even have a sensor telling when charging is > >> > done. You have to guess when it's done charging. > >> > >> It's probably just a transformer->rectifier->resistor->battery, set to charge > >> at a C/10 rate or thereabouts. > >> > >> So you just wait ~12 hours or so and you're guaranteed it's fully charged -- > >> no guessing necessary. :-) > >> > >> There was a time, not that long ago, when most battery chargers were this, um, > >> "featureless!" > >> > >> > Dad wanted to buy same drill (on sale for $15); I talked him out of > >> > it. > >> > >> Sounds like it might be worth $15, actually... > >> > >> I think Harbor Freight is a good example of (1) you tend to get what you pay > >> for and (2) advertising leads many people to believe they need a lot more than > >> they really do. Their "value for the dollar" is actually pretty good -- > >> unlike a well-known brand name where the "image" can sometimes be much > >> flashier than what you're really getting (counting on many people never > >> recognizing as much -- see #2), with Harbor Freight it's pretty clear exactly > >> how rugged (or not) the item you're purchasing is. > >> > >> If you really want to impress your dad, get him one of these: > >> http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-1676-6-2-Inch-Joist-Drill/dp/B00005OP5S > > > > > > I see a lot of people buying tools for their business at Harbor > >Freight, and at Northern Tools. They don't complain about the quality, > >they complain that people steal their tools. > > Right. No one would steal a HF tool. <rdh> Not according to some people. Their 'Pittsburgh' brand of hand tools are stolen fairly often. > BTW, I have an order with them now for a portable dust collector ($70) and a > wide-crown pneumatic stapler ($20). They didn't have them on sale in the > store in Dothan Saturday. Dothan? EWWWWWWWW!!! I had to drive there from Ft Rucker too many times to pick up parts from a small wholesale electronics place. If I had taken that civil service job that I was offered in '73, I would probably still be in the area. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
From: vaughn on 3 Jun 2010 07:54
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message news:KeGdnfvRI-_6lprRnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... > > They charger is two piece, and has an indicator that the > battery is fully charged. Mine is 2-piece, but only has a charging indicator. The manual clearly states that the charger is not automatic and is capable of overcharging the battery. > If you can't remeber to unplug the charger, buy a timer. No! If the design of the battery is such that the batery discharges through the charger when it loses power...what do you think will happen after the timer turns off the charger? What I actually do is lay my car keys next to the charger. Vaughn |