Corporate creep in Linux? (mini-rantette)
in [Slackware]
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From: Loki Harfagr on 14 Sep 2009 13:41 Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:23:40 -0300, Jim Diamond did cat : > On 2009-09-13 at 16:57 ADT, Dan C <youmustbejoking(a)lan.invalid> wrote: >> On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:34:15 -0300, Jim Diamond wrote: >> >>>> "Bookmarks" in a terminal emulator? Huh? By the way, Xfce's >>>> Terminal certainly has color scheme choices, right there in the >>>> menus. Tabs, too. >> >>> Too bad it's such a piece of bloatware... here is an mrxvt that has >>> been open a day and a Terminal open for a few seconds, both with only >>> one tab open. >>> >>> % ps uaxw | egrep 'ermina|rxvt|RSS' >>> USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME >>> COMMAND zsd 3621 0.0 0.0 5616 1800 ? S Sep11 >>> 0:01 mrxvt zsd 29810 5.6 1.0 128408 20976 pts/1 S 13:28 0:00 >>> /usr/bin/Terminal Admittedly, the RSS is a bit less than 12 times as >>> large for Terminal. I wonder what they are doing to use up all that >>> memory. >> >> What I wonder is why you have such different numbers than what I get: > >> danc(a)moria:~$ ps uaxw | egrep 'erminal|rxvt|RSS' USER PID %CPU >> %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND danc 3201 >> 1.0 0.5 27044 18832 tty1 S 14:54 0:00 /usr/bin/terminal danc >> 3220 0.1 0.0 3860 1792 pts/0 S 14:55 0:00 rxvt danc >> 3230 0.0 0.0 2124 648 pts/0 S+ 14:55 0:00 egrep >> erminal|rxvt|RSS >> >> I'm running Xfce on Slack 13. > I'm using fvwm2 on Slack64-13. > > Your question about the difference is good. Maybe a 64-bit vs. 32-bit > thing?? > > Anyone else still reading this thread that care to chime in with their > numbers? as "It's more fun to compete", here's the test extended with an Eterm whistling all his bells" (besides the 2 other sessions and the grep were launched from that Eterm) ---------- ps uaxw | egrep 'erminal|rxvt|RSS|Eterm' USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND loki 18579 0.0 0.0 99780 5296 ? S 19:33 0:00 Eterm --default-font-index 2 --proportional --foreground-color yellow --geometry 128x40 --tint grey48 --scrollbar 0 --buttonbar 0 --itrans --trans loki 18626 0.0 0.0 28316 1748 pts/1 S 19:33 0:00 rxvt loki 18667 0.1 0.4 145356 27892 pts/1 S 19:33 0:00 terminal ---------- > > > While the VSS numbers are different in magnitude, your "terminal" is > still using over 10 times the memory of your rxvt, and not much less > than Terminal is using on my system. > > >>> (Yes, I realize that some of you are looking for ways to use up the 8 >>> GB of memory on your computer, but such a horrendous waste of >>> resources still irks me.) S**t, I only have 6GB, that must be the reason I use Fluxbox instead of Special-K ,-> >> It appears to be only that wasteful on *your* system... > That's a rather bold statement to make... it could be only *your* system > that has numbers like yours :-) and wait you've seen his license plate ;D)
From: Sylvain Robitaille on 14 Sep 2009 14:53 Jim Diamond wrote: > Anyone else still reading this thread that care to chime in with their > numbers? Ok, here are mine, from a system running Slackware-12.1; rxvt and Terminal started from an already open xterm; all listed terminals sitting idle at the time this snapshot was taken ... : charlotte[syl] ~/admin/cirrus/patches; ps uaxw |\ egrep -i 'term|rxvt|RSS' | sort -g -k6 USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND syl 23765 0.0 0.0 1804 576 pts/12 R+ 14:44 0:00 egrep ... syl 11981 0.0 0.0 5420 620 tty1 S Aug17 0:00 xterm ... syl 6939 0.0 0.0 5420 740 tty1 S Aug05 1:49 xterm ... syl 13158 0.0 0.0 5420 796 tty1 S Aug06 0:00 xterm ... syl 7365 0.0 0.0 5420 908 tty1 S Aug17 0:09 xterm ... syl 6719 0.0 0.1 5616 1444 tty1 S Aug05 0:08 xterm ... syl 2984 0.0 0.1 5716 1480 tty1 S Aug05 1:11 xterm ... syl 7949 0.0 0.1 5612 1492 tty1 S Aug05 0:08 xterm ... syl 23064 0.0 0.1 3196 1536 pts/12 S 14:42 0:00 rxvt syl 2985 0.0 0.1 5708 1568 tty1 S Aug05 0:09 xterm ... syl 3580 0.0 0.1 5620 1592 tty1 S Aug05 0:20 xterm ... syl 30058 0.0 0.1 5420 1940 tty1 S Sep02 0:00 xterm ... syl 9888 0.0 0.1 5420 1996 tty1 S Aug26 0:01 xterm ... syl 17617 0.0 0.1 5420 2016 tty1 S Sep03 0:00 xterm ... syl 6928 0.0 0.1 5420 2024 tty1 S Sep09 0:00 xterm ... syl 30065 0.0 0.2 5420 2068 tty1 S Sep02 0:02 xterm ... syl 12027 0.0 0.2 5420 2104 tty1 S Aug24 0:02 xterm ... syl 15542 0.0 0.2 5420 2152 tty1 S Sep03 0:00 xterm ... syl 8326 0.0 0.2 5604 2156 tty1 S Sep02 0:03 xterm ... syl 13630 0.0 0.2 5420 2280 tty1 S Sep08 0:00 xterm ... syl 22028 0.0 0.2 5524 2352 tty1 S Sep02 0:01 xterm ... syl 19627 0.0 0.2 5604 2464 tty1 S Sep02 0:11 xterm ... syl 30267 0.0 0.2 5584 2560 tty1 S 11:26 0:00 xterm ... syl 26790 0.0 0.2 5420 2572 tty1 S 10:44 0:00 xterm ... syl 23192 0.1 1.7 44180 17744 pts/12 S 14:42 0:00 Terminal Rxvt and Terminal use up way too much screen real-estate ... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sylvain Robitaille syl(a)encs.concordia.ca Systems analyst / AITS Concordia University Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science Montreal, Quebec, Canada ----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Old Man on 15 Sep 2009 19:36 goarilla wrote: > On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:17:25 -0400, Old Man wrote: >> Good luck with that. You might want to browse distrowatch first. You >> might find several lean, basic distributions already available. They'll >> be based on Slackware. >> > > that's a pretty big generalisation: > puppy linux, damn small linux and tinycore are all based on debian > IIRC Yes, there are "small" distributions based on other distributions, and some that claim to be "independent." I assumed Mike would only be interested in the best. ;) -- Old Man
From: Old Man on 15 Sep 2009 21:02 Grant wrote: >>I don't know whether it's consistent, but the last time I installed, >>rather than go through a config file to change things, I just put what I'd >>changed in the past at the end of the config file. It seemed to work >>fine, whatever was parsed earlier was changed when my values came along. > > Another technique is to comment out the original or default setting, > then add your custom setting. I do this in files rarely visited, > like in blacklist or udev guts. Yet another is to bracket modifications to config files with a consistent set of comments. For example: ## OldMan 20090914 ## reason for modification line 1 of modification .... line n of modification ## /OldMan If you've replaced original lines with your own, comment out the originals and include them within the bracket comments. Has the advantage of allowing you to quickly find all the files you've modified, and identify the modifications, by greping for "OldMan" -- Old Man
From: Mike Jones on 16 Sep 2009 05:07
Responding to Old Man: > goarilla wrote: > >> On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:17:25 -0400, Old Man wrote: > >>> Good luck with that. You might want to browse distrowatch first. You >>> might find several lean, basic distributions already available. >>> They'll be based on Slackware. >>> >>> >> that's a pretty big generalisation: >> puppy linux, damn small linux and tinycore are all based on debian IIRC > > Yes, there are "small" distributions based on other distributions, and > some that claim to be "independent." I assumed Mike would only be > interested in the best. ;) Heh! That would be Slackware then. And so we return to my original point that feature-creep and bloat do indeed find their way upstream, including stuff generated by corporate development teams. The solution to this is to (slightly) extend whats available in a standard Slackware install, to include alternative setups to the ever expanding defaults. This is already in operation as an idea, what with alternative desktops like KDE or Xfce etc., but IMO it needs to be extended to include alternatives to the bloaty stuff, so that a standard Slacker (and noobz) can simply chose an installation set that IS a lightweight OS, straight off the install DVD. It might be nice if there was a single option on the installer too. "Full", "Menu", "Light" The "Light" being something like a stripped down OS with JWM or IceWM stuck on top of a basic but functional system that just had enough bits in it, approporiately configured, to provide a fast dependable OS for basic functions like Abiword word processing, Dillo2 surfing, Sylpheed email, Pan usenet, Bashburn for disk burning, and so on. Some ideas could be cloned across from the Slax project, like simply dropping modules in where and when required, and backing them up when not, and so on. Hmmm. I like this idea. -- *===( http://www.400monkeys.com/God/ *===( http://principiadiscordia.com/ *===( http://www.slackware.com/ |