Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA
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From: David Segall on 30 Apr 2010 11:27 Jim Janney <jjanney(a)shell.xmission.com> wrote: >I started programming with punch cards, first in Fortran and then >Algol W -- you'd write everything out by hand and then stand in line >for one of the keypunches. It did make you check everything over and >over and over again. Still, I wouldn't recommend doing that now. You mean you haven't used a dibber to alter a paper tape binary? How did you avoid using the switches on the front panel to alter the program in core memory? I don't see how anybody can seriously join this style of competition if they have watched the "Four Yorkshire Men" <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo>.
From: Jim Janney on 30 Apr 2010 14:26 David Segall <david(a)address.invalid> writes: > Jim Janney <jjanney(a)shell.xmission.com> wrote: > >>I started programming with punch cards, first in Fortran and then >>Algol W -- you'd write everything out by hand and then stand in line >>for one of the keypunches. It did make you check everything over and >>over and over again. Still, I wouldn't recommend doing that now. > > You mean you haven't used a dibber to alter a paper tape binary? How > did you avoid using the switches on the front panel to alter the > program in core memory? > > I don't see how anybody can seriously join this style of competition > if they have watched the "Four Yorkshire Men" > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo>. Sorry, no paper tapes. In high school the computer was on a different campus, and only one student was allowed to operate the card reader. If he didn't like you he'd "forget" to run your jobs. In college you could walk right up and use the card reader, but the computer was behind a glass wall: no way were they allowing mere freshmen anywhere near it. With Eclipse I can hit a breakpoint, change a line, recompile, and continue running in the same stack frame. I like this better. -- Jim Janney
From: BGB / cr88192 on 1 May 2010 02:23 "Arved Sandstrom" <dcest61(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:%O4Cn.2984$Z6.2774(a)edtnps82... > Stefan Ram wrote: >> Arved Sandstrom <dcest61(a)hotmail.com> writes: >>> I agree with all of the above - now. Prior to 2000 I used text editors >> >> �[T]he only 3 editors we know to be used by great >> hackers are TextMate, vim and emacs. (...) >> >> We haven't met a single great hacker that relied on an IDE, >> although we hear they exist.� >> >> http://giraffesoft.ca/blog/2009/03/10/4-core-competencies-of-great-hackers.html > [ SNIP ] > > After reading what that guy wrote in that link, I must conclude that he's > an ignorant idiot. It is not humanly possible - and common sense should > have informed that fool of this fact - to be faster without an IDE than > with one. And if some individual has an environment built up around vim or > emacs or some other programming text editor, with all sorts of helper > scripts and macros and what have you, with which they are also very > productive...guess what? That is also an IDE. > I think a lot of this would depend on various factors: the speed and skills of the developers involved; the particular languages and coding practices in use; .... for example, a developer who can (on a good day) churn out several kloc/day with Notepad and with a relatively low error rate, will naturally still be much faster than someone who fudges away getting caught up on details like what exactly "Encapsulate Field" does, or starts having troubles due to having created several different objects with conflicting names... another problem is that many IDE commands tend to depend heavily on mouse-movements (such as pointy-clicky or operating menus), which can eat up more time than the equivalent sets of keyboard actions (if one really gets into it). for example, if it takes around 5-8 seconds to do an action with a mouse, but one can do the same with the keyboard in around 3-4 seconds, then not much is saved (apart from maybe one being accused of jackhammering the keyboard...). granted, for the most part IDE's still tend to work pretty well as text-editors. apart from many of them being laggy and having poor response times, and it can be disorientating when one is typing faster than the thing can update the text on the screen... (granted, this can also be a problem with other apps as well...). however, as noted, language may also effect a lot. for example, Java imposes the one-class-per-file restriction, and this itself can eat time (since then one has to manage many more files, which typically means much more jumping between files, ...). this is different from something like C or C++ where one can generally put however much code per file is convinient (which often ends up being around 500 - 1500 lines per file IME). granted, much more of the time though, one typically goes at a more leisurely pace, often due to things like doing other stuff, thinking about stuff (having to stop and think is itself a great time-eater), ... if one considers all the huge masses of time that usually go into having to stop and think about stuff (like strategize and consider implementation strategies and such...) then this likely eats up much of the overall performance differences (the great flow of mind-to-code broken by the consideration of how to work a given feature into the existing codebase, ....). or such...
From: John B. Matthews on 1 May 2010 10:25 In article <hrghdl$35u$1(a)news.albasani.net>, "BGB / cr88192" <cr88192(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Java imposes the one-class-per-file restriction More specifically, one public, top-level class per file. There can be an arbitrary number of package-private and nested classes. <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/packages.html#7.6> <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html> <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/nested.html> -- John B. Matthews trashgod at gmail dot com <http://sites.google.com/site/drjohnbmatthews>
From: Lew on 1 May 2010 10:35
BGB / cr88192 wrote: > I think a lot of this would depend on various factors: > the speed and skills of the developers involved; > the particular languages and coding practices in use; > ... > > for example, a developer who can (on a good day) churn out several kloc/day > with Notepad and with a relatively low error rate, will naturally still be > much faster than someone who fudges away getting caught up on details like > what exactly "Encapsulate Field" does, or starts having troubles due to > having created several different objects with conflicting names... In other words, a developer who understands programming and knows what they're doing will outperform a developer who doesn't. I don't think the IDE is a factor in that. A developer who can churn out effective and useful code (KLOC being a useless measure of productivity) with an IDE and a low error rate will naturally be much faster (and more effective) than someone who fudges away with a text editor, getting caught up on details like what exactly encapsulating a field is, or has troubles due to the creation of several different objects with conflicting names. (One period suffices to end a sentence.) -- Lew |