Fluke 87V - any reason not to buy?
in [Design]
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From: ehsjr on 11 Dec 2009 23:12 Joerg wrote: > Dave Platt wrote: > >> In article <7ofiv7F3p57imU2(a)mid.individual.net>, >> Joerg <news(a)analogconsultants.com> wrote: >> >>> The home is well insulated but the windows aren't. Single pane, >>> albeit thick glass. However, yesterday at the client I found that one >>> of the engineers had just replaced it on his whole house with >>> dual-pane. $30k! Our house has a lot more windows and sliders :-( >> >> >> Ouch. We had a similar job done a few years ago - one-story >> ranch-style, two big patio glass double-doors, big dual-pane sliding >> windows in three bedrooms and the kitchen, plus a couple of bathroom >> windows. We had low-emission double-pane glass installed, with >> extra-thick used in the master bedroom and attached bath. The total >> came to just a bit over $5k. >> > > Do you remember which brand and who the installer company was (if > nationwide)? I am in Northen California. Which sometimes feels like > Siberia lately ... > > >>> IOW, there ain't no chance at all to recoup that sort of investment. >> >> >> As far as comfort goes, though, it's a real win. The house feels a >> lot snugger in winter, and significantly cooler during the hot days of >> summer (it was well-insulated in other respects when we bought it). >> >> I think it's the best investment we've made in the place. >> >> Shop around... you may find that you can get good-quality double-pane >> windows installed for rather less than what your cow-orker paid. >> > > Ok, will do. I've heard that the Pella brand is good but I can't ask the > friend who had those installed over here because he passed away :-( > Both Pella and Andersen were top rated when I looked into it, many moons ago - 1979. AFAIK they still are. In the meantime, have you ever thought of using that plastic heat shrink sheeting that you install on the inside? When we bought the house, the windows leaked like a sieve, and there was no money to replace. So we used that stuff for several winters until we saved enough for new windows. The stuff worked great! MUCH more comfortable. The stuff comes with plastic tracks with self-stick tape on them. Peel the tape, install the tracks. Put the sheet up and press it into the groove in the tracks with a T shaped piece of plastic trim that goes into the groove. Then heat and you get a nice tight wrinkle free transparent look. You can't open the windows, so if warm days come and you want air, you have to use the doors. Other than that, there's no downside to using it, at least none that I encountered. Ed
From: JosephKK on 11 Dec 2009 23:15 On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:53:56 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >JosephKK wrote: >> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:54:58 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 08:51:36 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> JosephKK wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:36:50 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> krw wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:10:22 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Get a wood stove. Seriously, best investment we ever made in this house. >>>>>>>>> Global "warming" has led us from 2-cord winters (where we got socked >>>>>>>>> with a $709 propane bill for one (!) month and got the wood stove) to >>>>>>>>> 4-cord winters. And I am not sure whether the purchase of 5 cords >>>>>>>>> wouldn't be advised for next winter. >>>>>>>> I think we're going to put the gas logs in the fireplace this year. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you imagine what propane heating would cost us this winter? >>>>>>>> Propane varies widely across the country. In VT it was about 3x what >>>>>>>> oil cost. Dunno here, yet. >>>>>>> It's way more than gasoline out here in CA even though it has less BTU. >>>>>>> So we thumbed our noses at the oil companies and went to wood heat. But >>>>>>> I wish we had a bigger stove, with all this cooling trend. Despite what >>>>>>> experts say I now think that bigger is better. >>>>>> I would certainly pay attention to how efficient it was over its >>>>>> heating power working range. >>>>> Well, that's just it. At the 20% to 50% level it's supposedly around >>>>> 78%. But California seems to get colder every year. So, more and more we >>>>> find ourselves running it close to full bore and that's where the >>>>> efficiency drops off. Still a clean burn, no smoke, but lots more heat >>>>> escapes through the chimney. Modern wood stoves can operate quite well >>>>> at the lower burn settings but not when you run them with primary plus >>>>> secondary air fully open. Probably because they don't have much of a >>>>> baffle system like older stoves do. Then they start eating wood as if it >>>>> was popcorn. At this rate I am not sure our 4 cords will last through >>>>> winter :-( >>>>> >>>>> This morning it happened for the first time that we needed wood stove + >>>>> pellet stove + central heat to get the house warm. Here in the office it >>>>> was 58F at 7:00am even though wood and pellet stoves ran all night. >>>> Damn! I come unglued at 68ºF... but then our humidity is ZERO :-( >>>> >>> How do you recognize an Arizonan? When he says "But it's a dry heat ...." >>> >>> In an hour I am starting my 2nd attempt to whack the ice cover on the >>> steep driveway because I need to get to a client tomorrow, after being >>> more or less stuck here in the house since Sunday. Wish me luck. This >>> morning I heard a neighbor somewhere trying the same, then started up >>> the car, put in gear, release brake ... ka-crunchah ... ka-chrunch .... >>> phsssseeeee ... *CRUNCH* ... sounded like it's sitting in a frozen snow >>> bank now. >> >> This may sound weird but try taking a leaf blower to it. > > >To a 2" ice cover? Well, I got it to go away, mostly, by whacking it >with a shovel, shoveling the ice sheets aside and dumping salt onto the >surface. The ice shattered with a noise like glass. Oops. I was thinking small fractional inch.
From: JosephKK on 11 Dec 2009 23:23 On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:56:30 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >JosephKK wrote: >> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 08:51:36 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> JosephKK wrote: >>>> On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:36:50 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> krw wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:10:22 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>>>> Get a wood stove. Seriously, best investment we ever made in this house. >>>>>>> Global "warming" has led us from 2-cord winters (where we got socked >>>>>>> with a $709 propane bill for one (!) month and got the wood stove) to >>>>>>> 4-cord winters. And I am not sure whether the purchase of 5 cords >>>>>>> wouldn't be advised for next winter. >>>>>> I think we're going to put the gas logs in the fireplace this year. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you imagine what propane heating would cost us this winter? >>>>>> Propane varies widely across the country. In VT it was about 3x what >>>>>> oil cost. Dunno here, yet. >>>>> It's way more than gasoline out here in CA even though it has less BTU. >>>>> So we thumbed our noses at the oil companies and went to wood heat. But >>>>> I wish we had a bigger stove, with all this cooling trend. Despite what >>>>> experts say I now think that bigger is better. >>>> I would certainly pay attention to how efficient it was over its >>>> heating power working range. >>> >>> Well, that's just it. At the 20% to 50% level it's supposedly around >>> 78%. But California seems to get colder every year. So, more and more we >>> find ourselves running it close to full bore and that's where the >>> efficiency drops off. Still a clean burn, no smoke, but lots more heat >>> escapes through the chimney. Modern wood stoves can operate quite well >>> at the lower burn settings but not when you run them with primary plus >>> secondary air fully open. Probably because they don't have much of a >>> baffle system like older stoves do. Then they start eating wood as if it >>> was popcorn. At this rate I am not sure our 4 cords will last through >>> winter :-( >>> >>> This morning it happened for the first time that we needed wood stove + >>> pellet stove + central heat to get the house warm. Here in the office it >>> was 58F at 7:00am even though wood and pellet stoves ran all night. >> >> I see that you understood me well. 58F is too crispy for me to get up >> without an emergency. I suggest at least two more cords. And more >> pellets. ISTR your place was decently insulated, but the cold snap >> has just been extreme. > > >The home is well insulated but the windows aren't. Single pane, albeit >thick glass. However, yesterday at the client I found that one of the >engineers had just replaced it on his whole house with dual-pane. $30k! >Our house has a lot more windows and sliders :-( > >IOW, there ain't no chance at all to recoup that sort of investment. I would not make that decision quite so quickly, dual pane low-E can make a big difference in HVAC costs. Ask a "Pro" and reduce the promised savings 50%. Also insist on documentation on the nature and issues of any proposed savings of "rebates".
From: Joerg on 12 Dec 2009 16:35 ehsjr wrote: > Joerg wrote: >> Dave Platt wrote: >> >>> In article <7ofiv7F3p57imU2(a)mid.individual.net>, >>> Joerg <news(a)analogconsultants.com> wrote: >>> >>>> The home is well insulated but the windows aren't. Single pane, >>>> albeit thick glass. However, yesterday at the client I found that >>>> one of the engineers had just replaced it on his whole house with >>>> dual-pane. $30k! Our house has a lot more windows and sliders :-( >>> >>> >>> Ouch. We had a similar job done a few years ago - one-story >>> ranch-style, two big patio glass double-doors, big dual-pane sliding >>> windows in three bedrooms and the kitchen, plus a couple of bathroom >>> windows. We had low-emission double-pane glass installed, with >>> extra-thick used in the master bedroom and attached bath. The total >>> came to just a bit over $5k. >>> >> >> Do you remember which brand and who the installer company was (if >> nationwide)? I am in Northen California. Which sometimes feels like >> Siberia lately ... >> >> >>>> IOW, there ain't no chance at all to recoup that sort of investment. >>> >>> >>> As far as comfort goes, though, it's a real win. The house feels a >>> lot snugger in winter, and significantly cooler during the hot days of >>> summer (it was well-insulated in other respects when we bought it). >>> >>> I think it's the best investment we've made in the place. >>> >>> Shop around... you may find that you can get good-quality double-pane >>> windows installed for rather less than what your cow-orker paid. >>> >> >> Ok, will do. I've heard that the Pella brand is good but I can't ask >> the friend who had those installed over here because he passed away :-( >> > > Both Pella and Andersen were top rated when I looked into > it, many moons ago - 1979. AFAIK they still are. In the meantime, > have you ever thought of using that plastic heat shrink sheeting > that you install on the inside? When we bought the house, the > windows leaked like a sieve, and there was no money to replace. > So we used that stuff for several winters until we saved enough > for new windows. The stuff worked great! MUCH more comfortable. > The stuff comes with plastic tracks with self-stick tape on them. > Peel the tape, install the tracks. Put the sheet up and press it > into the groove in the tracks with a T shaped piece of plastic trim > that goes into the groove. Then heat and you get a nice tight > wrinkle free transparent look. You can't open the windows, > so if warm days come and you want air, you have to use the doors. > Other than that, there's no downside to using it, at least > none that I encountered. > That's a problem out here. If mounted on the outside the fierce winds we have will tear it away. Insides there's the paws of three dogs, two of them a tad on the wild side at times. We have to clean the slider glass almost weekly, paw prints inside and out. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 12 Dec 2009 16:37
JosephKK wrote: > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:56:30 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> JosephKK wrote: >>> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 08:51:36 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> JosephKK wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:36:50 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> krw wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:10:22 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> [...] >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Get a wood stove. Seriously, best investment we ever made in this house. >>>>>>>> Global "warming" has led us from 2-cord winters (where we got socked >>>>>>>> with a $709 propane bill for one (!) month and got the wood stove) to >>>>>>>> 4-cord winters. And I am not sure whether the purchase of 5 cords >>>>>>>> wouldn't be advised for next winter. >>>>>>> I think we're going to put the gas logs in the fireplace this year. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you imagine what propane heating would cost us this winter? >>>>>>> Propane varies widely across the country. In VT it was about 3x what >>>>>>> oil cost. Dunno here, yet. >>>>>> It's way more than gasoline out here in CA even though it has less BTU. >>>>>> So we thumbed our noses at the oil companies and went to wood heat. But >>>>>> I wish we had a bigger stove, with all this cooling trend. Despite what >>>>>> experts say I now think that bigger is better. >>>>> I would certainly pay attention to how efficient it was over its >>>>> heating power working range. >>>> Well, that's just it. At the 20% to 50% level it's supposedly around >>>> 78%. But California seems to get colder every year. So, more and more we >>>> find ourselves running it close to full bore and that's where the >>>> efficiency drops off. Still a clean burn, no smoke, but lots more heat >>>> escapes through the chimney. Modern wood stoves can operate quite well >>>> at the lower burn settings but not when you run them with primary plus >>>> secondary air fully open. Probably because they don't have much of a >>>> baffle system like older stoves do. Then they start eating wood as if it >>>> was popcorn. At this rate I am not sure our 4 cords will last through >>>> winter :-( >>>> >>>> This morning it happened for the first time that we needed wood stove + >>>> pellet stove + central heat to get the house warm. Here in the office it >>>> was 58F at 7:00am even though wood and pellet stoves ran all night. >>> I see that you understood me well. 58F is too crispy for me to get up >>> without an emergency. I suggest at least two more cords. And more >>> pellets. ISTR your place was decently insulated, but the cold snap >>> has just been extreme. >> >> The home is well insulated but the windows aren't. Single pane, albeit >> thick glass. However, yesterday at the client I found that one of the >> engineers had just replaced it on his whole house with dual-pane. $30k! >> Our house has a lot more windows and sliders :-( >> >> IOW, there ain't no chance at all to recoup that sort of investment. > > I would not make that decision quite so quickly, dual pane low-E can > make a big difference in HVAC costs. Ask a "Pro" and reduce the > promised savings 50%. Also insist on documentation on the nature > and issues of any proposed savings of "rebates". Oh yeah, we will be very careful. It seems there are quite some "inconsistencies" and wild swings in this business when it comes to pricing. As for HVAC, we don't use AC much in the summer. It's the wood stove that has to crank so darn hard in winter because it seems to get colder every winter. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM. |