How do you design these days?
in [Design]
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From: Jim Thompson on 6 Jan 2010 11:45 On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:30:46 -0800, John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:21:52 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >wrote: > >>John Larkin wrote: >>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:47:39 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:31:49 -0600, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:54:46 -0800, "Joel Koltner" >>>>>> <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> "krw" <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:gj45k5tr1g3rqe72k3tbff33lnke7c5sdk(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:02:59 -0800, "Joel Koltner" >>>>>>>> <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> That's the argument I get from the layout guy. >>>>>>> I know they exist (e.g., the guys at UltraCAD), but so far I've never worked >>>>>>> anywhere where the layout guy was particularly "proactive" in the sense of >>>>>>> suggesting interesting/potentially useful new ways to deal with parts >>>>>>> management... they instead seem to always have a reason why, no, you can't do >>>>>>> it the way you're suggesting (even though you've done so many times over >>>>>>> somewhere else...). C'est la vie... >>>>> You haven't worked with The Brat. >>>>> >>>> Or my layouter for that matter. He always comes up with good ideas. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> That's a bit more convenient, I just worry that I'll then forget it and that >>>>>>> somehow a DRC run won't catch it either. (We don't have a "formal checklist" >>>>>>> like John says he's working on to catch this sort of thing...) >>>>> I'm not working on the checklist... The Brat is! >>>>> >>>> Still working off that Jeep that she bought with college "savings"? >>> >>> She paid that off ahead of time. I was impressed. >>> >>> She just finished her first PCB layout contract job, $2K for a couple >>> of days work on a 2-sided board. That's the project where I charged >>> the startup $1 to design the product and pseudocode the data acq part >>> of the software for them. These guys are used to working way, way up >>> the abstraction stack (ie, back-end web apps) and are a bit bemused by >>> banging bits with realtime budgets. >>> >> >>Wow, $2k is a rather princely sum for a two day layout. No wonder she's >>had the Jeep paid off by now :-) > >We're contracting out an FPGA design for $125 an hour, discounted from >the guy's "big company" rate of $175. > >My lawyer charges $400. > >John SF prices. My chip layout guy (Columbus, OH) charges $100/hour. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
From: Joerg on 6 Jan 2010 11:50 Jim Thompson wrote: > On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:30:46 -0800, John Larkin > <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:21:52 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:47:39 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:31:49 -0600, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:54:46 -0800, "Joel Koltner" >>>>>>> <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "krw" <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:gj45k5tr1g3rqe72k3tbff33lnke7c5sdk(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:02:59 -0800, "Joel Koltner" >>>>>>>>> <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> That's the argument I get from the layout guy. >>>>>>>> I know they exist (e.g., the guys at UltraCAD), but so far I've never worked >>>>>>>> anywhere where the layout guy was particularly "proactive" in the sense of >>>>>>>> suggesting interesting/potentially useful new ways to deal with parts >>>>>>>> management... they instead seem to always have a reason why, no, you can't do >>>>>>>> it the way you're suggesting (even though you've done so many times over >>>>>>>> somewhere else...). C'est la vie... >>>>>> You haven't worked with The Brat. >>>>>> >>>>> Or my layouter for that matter. He always comes up with good ideas. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> That's a bit more convenient, I just worry that I'll then forget it and that >>>>>>>> somehow a DRC run won't catch it either. (We don't have a "formal checklist" >>>>>>>> like John says he's working on to catch this sort of thing...) >>>>>> I'm not working on the checklist... The Brat is! >>>>>> >>>>> Still working off that Jeep that she bought with college "savings"? >>>> She paid that off ahead of time. I was impressed. >>>> >>>> She just finished her first PCB layout contract job, $2K for a couple >>>> of days work on a 2-sided board. That's the project where I charged >>>> the startup $1 to design the product and pseudocode the data acq part >>>> of the software for them. These guys are used to working way, way up >>>> the abstraction stack (ie, back-end web apps) and are a bit bemused by >>>> banging bits with realtime budgets. >>>> >>> Wow, $2k is a rather princely sum for a two day layout. No wonder she's >>> had the Jeep paid off by now :-) >> We're contracting out an FPGA design for $125 an hour, discounted from >> the guy's "big company" rate of $175. >> >> My lawyer charges $400. >> >> John > > SF prices. My chip layout guy (Columbus, OH) charges $100/hour. > For board layout that would be way high. Even chip layout was a lot cheaper although my last one dates back to the last millenium. Looks like my next one will be done in China. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Jim Thompson on 6 Jan 2010 12:06 On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:50:43 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:30:46 -0800, John Larkin >> <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> [snip] >>> We're contracting out an FPGA design for $125 an hour, discounted from >>> the guy's "big company" rate of $175. >>> >>> My lawyer charges $400. >>> >>> John >> >> SF prices. My chip layout guy (Columbus, OH) charges $100/hour. >> > >For board layout that would be way high. Even chip layout was a lot >cheaper although my last one dates back to the last millenium. Looks >like my next one will be done in China. Virtually ALL my processing is now done in China. And my next likely big project is in Hong Kong, with funding from Dubai World ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
From: Joerg on 6 Jan 2010 12:28 Jim Thompson wrote: > On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:50:43 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:30:46 -0800, John Larkin >>> <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> > [snip] >>>> We're contracting out an FPGA design for $125 an hour, discounted from >>>> the guy's "big company" rate of $175. >>>> >>>> My lawyer charges $400. >>>> >>>> John >>> SF prices. My chip layout guy (Columbus, OH) charges $100/hour. >>> >> For board layout that would be way high. Even chip layout was a lot >> cheaper although my last one dates back to the last millenium. Looks >> like my next one will be done in China. > > Virtually ALL my processing is now done in China. ... Mine will probably even be designed there on the transistor- and macro-level after I finish the architecture. Would have loved to keep it in the US (Arizona, in particular) but that'll be out of my hands. > ... And my next likely > big project is in Hong Kong, with funding from Dubai World ;-) > Might want to think about a retainer on this one :-) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aoFe12bwzZ2M -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Jim Thompson on 6 Jan 2010 13:10
On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:28:54 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:50:43 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:30:46 -0800, John Larkin >>>> <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>> >> [snip] >>>>> We're contracting out an FPGA design for $125 an hour, discounted from >>>>> the guy's "big company" rate of $175. >>>>> >>>>> My lawyer charges $400. >>>>> >>>>> John >>>> SF prices. My chip layout guy (Columbus, OH) charges $100/hour. >>>> >>> For board layout that would be way high. Even chip layout was a lot >>> cheaper although my last one dates back to the last millenium. Looks >>> like my next one will be done in China. >> >> Virtually ALL my processing is now done in China. ... > > >Mine will probably even be designed there on the transistor- and >macro-level after I finish the architecture. Would have loved to keep it >in the US (Arizona, in particular) but that'll be out of my hands. If it's analog, you're risking design by theoreticians (at best) with no hands-on (so'dering :-) experience. After it's a monumental failure give me a call. (*) (*) Often happens... I quote, customer says too high, goes to low bidder. One-two years later, comes back in a panic... I point out inflation applies to my pricing ;-) Recent 6 weeks quicky project (only 6 cells): Customer is astonished at the detail in my design review... all conducted via GoToMeeting (New Zealand ;-) > > >> ... And my next likely >> big project is in Hong Kong, with funding from Dubai World ;-) >> > >Might want to think about a retainer on this one :-) > >http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aoFe12bwzZ2M I typically ask for 1/3 to 1/2 up front. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |