How to tell a rank amateur from a seasoned one, or a pro
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From: John Navas on 2 Jul 2010 10:47 On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:27:48 -0400, in <4c2df7c0$0$5543$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com>, "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote: >"whisky-dave" <whisky-dave(a)final.front.ear> wrote in message >news:i0knkt$549$1(a)qmul... >> >> "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message >> news:4c2c86a2$0$22165$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... >>> On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote: >>> >>>> In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest >>>> if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture. >>> >>> Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum >>> of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing >>> of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was in >>> the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially in >>> challenging situations. >> >> I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the >> differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's >> the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the >> electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer. >> Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag. > >Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you set. Not necessarily -- the lens may well be pre-focused. -- Best regards, John Buying a dSLR doesn't make you a photographer, it makes you a dSLR owner. "The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it." -Ansel Adams
From: whisky-dave on 2 Jul 2010 10:49 "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message news:4c2df7c0$0$5543$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com... > "whisky-dave" <whisky-dave(a)final.front.ear> wrote in message > news:i0knkt$549$1(a)qmul... >> >> "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message >> news:4c2c86a2$0$22165$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... >>> On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote: >>> >>>> In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest >>>> if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture. >>> >>> Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum >>> of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing >>> of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was >>> in the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially in >>> challenging situations. >>> >> >> I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the >> differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's >> the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the >> electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer. >> Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag. >> >> > > > Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you > set. Why ? I like to focus before I intend to capture the image. If I'm going to focus say on the 100M runner in 2012 Olympics I don;t class that as a 2 year shutter lag. My shutter lag will be the amount of time it takes for me to begin pressing the shutter to the time it takes for the image to be captured. Some might refer to it as a propagation delay which is what I do in electronics. 'Electricity' travels fast, but at a finite speed. If it takes 2 years for the event to happen that's not the cameras fault. Same with focusing, which is focus lag. I remember the days of film changing lags too, which was removed by being able to have a 250 exp camera 'back'. Friends remember processing lags, as being a wedding photographer they used to have to get the film processed and printed within a few hours. This meant developing the film while driving to the darkroom in the car, washing it in meths too, although not while driving. I'm wondering when the first camera with pre-shutter trigger will be released as standard like auto focus is today.
From: John Navas on 2 Jul 2010 11:11 On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:49:33 +0100, in <i0ku9n$7dl$1(a)qmul>, "whisky-dave" <whisky-dave(a)final.front.ear> wrote: >"Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message >news:4c2df7c0$0$5543$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com... >I like to focus before I intend to capture the image. >If I'm going to focus say on the 100M runner in 2012 Olympics >I don;t class that as a 2 year shutter lag. >My shutter lag will be the amount of time it takes for me to begin pressing >the shutter to the time it takes for the image to be captured. >Some might refer to it as a propagation delay which is what I do in >electronics. >'Electricity' travels fast, but at a finite speed. > >If it takes 2 years for the event to happen that's not the cameras fault. >Same with focusing, which is focus lag. >I remember the days of film changing lags too, which was removed by being >able to have a 250 exp camera 'back'. >Friends remember processing lags, as being a wedding photographer >they used to have to get the film processed and printed within a few hours. >This meant developing the film while driving to the darkroom in the car, >washing it in meths too, although not while driving. > >I'm wondering when the first camera with pre-shutter trigger will be >released >as standard like auto focus is today. They already exist, by Fuji if memory serves. -- Best regards, John Buying a dSLR doesn't make you a photographer, it makes you a dSLR owner. "The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it." -Ansel Adams
From: Peter on 2 Jul 2010 11:22 "John Navas" <jncl1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:tuur265k6hfr11j3emi7k3g40vvsk14jqa(a)4ax.com... > On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:27:48 -0400, in > <4c2df7c0$0$5543$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com>, "Peter" > <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote: > >>"whisky-dave" <whisky-dave(a)final.front.ear> wrote in message >>news:i0knkt$549$1(a)qmul... >>> >>> "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message >>> news:4c2c86a2$0$22165$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... >>>> On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote: >>>> >>>>> In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest >>>>> if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture. >>>> >>>> Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum >>>> of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing >>>> of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was >>>> in >>>> the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially in >>>> challenging situations. >>> >>> I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the >>> differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's >>> the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the >>> electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer. >>> Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag. >> >>Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you >>set. > > Not necessarily -- the lens may well be pre-focused. > Yup! Very easy to do in wildlife photography. Just pick your spot and let the wildlife come to you. -- Peter
From: Peter on 2 Jul 2010 11:20
"whisky-dave" <whisky-dave(a)final.front.ear> wrote in message news:i0ku9n$7dl$1(a)qmul... > > "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message > news:4c2df7c0$0$5543$8f2e0ebb(a)news.shared-secrets.com... >> "whisky-dave" <whisky-dave(a)final.front.ear> wrote in message >> news:i0knkt$549$1(a)qmul... >>> >>> "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message >>> news:4c2c86a2$0$22165$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... >>>> On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote: >>>> >>>>> In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest >>>>> if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture. >>>> >>>> Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum >>>> of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing >>>> of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was >>>> in the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially >>>> in challenging situations. >>>> >>> >>> I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the >>> differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's >>> the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the >>> electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer. >>> Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag. >>> >>> >> >> >> Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you >> set. > > Why ? > > I like to focus before I intend to capture the image. > If I'm going to focus say on the 100M runner in 2012 Olympics > I don;t class that as a 2 year shutter lag. > My shutter lag will be the amount of time it takes for me to begin > pressing the shutter to the time it takes for the image to be captured. > Some might refer to it as a propagation delay which is what I do in > electronics. > 'Electricity' travels fast, but at a finite speed. > > If it takes 2 years for the event to happen that's not the cameras fault. > Same with focusing, which is focus lag. > I remember the days of film changing lags too, which was removed by being > able to have a 250 exp camera 'back'. > Friends remember processing lags, as being a wedding photographer > they used to have to get the film processed and printed within a few > hours. > This meant developing the film while driving to the darkroom in the car, > washing it in meths too, although not while driving. > > I'm wondering when the first camera with pre-shutter trigger will be > released > as standard like auto focus is today. And this has what to do with your definition? I am not trying to convince you. That is a waste of time. I just don't want to see a newbie to be mislead. -- Peter |