I hate sodding Windows XP and I hate PCs
in [UK Mac]
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From: zoara on 28 May 2010 10:25 Pd <peterd.news(a)gmail.invalid> wrote: > zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote: > >> I can't think of a better solution to the standard menus and > > toolbars, but >> at least Microsoft recognised that there *was* a problem with them > > and >> made an attempt to fix it. Problem is (as touched upon by your first >> sentence) Office is so complicated and stuffed full of features that > > any >> system that allows access to those features is *bound* to be > > complicated. > > I think a Spotlight-style command finding field could work, if it was > fast enough that as you typed letters, the list of matching commands > (or > command descriptions) shrank. If commands were suitably named, once > you > knew what the command name was, only a few keystrokes would be needed > to > call it up. That could work. It would have to be well-designed though; note how the Spotlight search on System Preferences will highlight "Desktop & Screensaver" when you start typing "wallpaper" - a metaphor which is not actually used in OSX at all. > I used to love the Lotus 123 menus, where the shortcut was the same as > the menu access so once you'd navigated the menus once to find the > command, you'd already discovered the fast menu access. I don't understand this. Is there a video somewhere? It sounds interesting. -z- -- email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: zoara on 28 May 2010 10:25 Chris Ridd <chrisridd(a)mac.com> wrote: > On 2010-05-24 11:06:25 +0100, zoara said: > >> Chris Ridd <chrisridd(a)mac.com> wrote: >>>> I'm baffled that people need toolbar buttons to do things like >>> copy/paste, or even save/print. The keyboard shortcuts for these > > > have >>> been pretty standard for 20 or so years, haven't they? >>> I'd argue that the people who memorise and use keyboard shortcuts > > > (even >> just copy and paste) are outnumbered many times over by those who > > aren't >> even aware such shortcuts exist. > > That's possible, though I'm sure even a Windows user would start to > notice a common set of shortcuts appearing on the menus of his/her > apps. Or has the fact that Microsoft changed shortcuts over time from > CUA-like to Mac-like confused people? (Ctrl-Insert for Paste, for > example.) I doubt they'd notice. For most people, the shortcut text is just UI noise on the menu. "Don't know what that means, doesn't appear to have any bearing on what I'm doing, things seem to work without me paying any attention to it, so I'll ignore it". Plus it brings up the difference between recognising and memorising. Recognising is easier, and people naturally gravitate towards easier unless there's an obvious incentive or they have an insatiable curiousity for the working of things. It's only geeks that see a letter or symbol or two on the menus and go "I wonder what that is? I wonder how I find out?" >> Hell, they may even be outnumbered by people who aren't aware of the >> clipboard, full stop. > > Well, they're not likely to gain much seeing a toolbar with copy/paste > icons on in that case. Heh. That's true. -z- -- email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: Chris Ridd on 28 May 2010 11:49 On 2010-05-28 15:25:10 +0100, zoara said: > Pd <peterd.news(a)gmail.invalid> wrote: >> I used to love the Lotus 123 menus, where the shortcut was the same as >> the menu access so once you'd navigated the menus once to find the >> command, you'd already discovered the fast menu access. > > I don't understand this. Is there a video somewhere? It sounds > interesting. IIRC you typed something like /FROB, where / meant select the menus, F went to the one starting F, and so forth. Actually I think Windows still supports something like this. -- Chris
From: Pd on 28 May 2010 13:48 zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote: > > I used to love the Lotus 123 menus, where the shortcut was the same as > > the menu access so once you'd navigated the menus once to find the > > command, you'd already discovered the fast menu access. > > I don't understand this. Is there a video somewhere? It sounds > interesting. I think most Windows applications use this system, or something similar. Or am I thinking of DOS? Alt (or \ in Lotus) to get menu access, then the keyboard shortcut for each menu is underlined. Hit that key, the corresponding menu drops down, and the commands in that menu have their key shortcuts underlined. For example, in the Worksheet menu there is Insert, in the Insert menu there is Column. To insert a column, you hit \wic. Done. Excel used to have a 123 emulation mode, and I still think esv whenever I do a Paste Special: Edit paste Special paste Values -- Pd
From: Peter Ceresole on 28 May 2010 14:11
Pd <peterd.news(a)gmail.invalid> wrote: > paste Values Woo-hoo! Is *that* why it's Cmd/Ctrl-V? I've used it for all those decades and never thought about it; it was just one of those things... And yes, I used those shortcut keys in MSDOS. -- Peter |