I'm so proud, I weaned someone off a P&S to a DSLR!
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From: nospam on 27 Oct 2009 11:51 In article <pc3ee5drvsi7vgentq1fo0g32m0e3jj6no(a)4ax.com>, John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > That's a bit harsh, but it is true that affordable dSLR cameras don't > measure up to the top compact digitals like the Panasonic FZ35, they not only measure up but they exceed it in just about every way other than size and weight. > and disingenuous to claim a dSLR for $400 is a reasonable alternative. not at all. > Even a budget Canon dSLR kit that still falls far short of the lens > performance of the FZ35, for example, runs much more (at B&H): > * Canon EOS Rebel XSi Digital Camera (body only) . . $532.95 > * Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Autofocus Lens . . $595.00 > Total . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,127.95 *that* is very disingenuous. not everyone wants or needs an 18-200mm lens. right now, b&h has a nikon d40 with lens for $469 and a canon rebel xs with a lens for $499. the older pentax k110d and nikon d50 sold for *under* 400.
From: John Navas on 27 Oct 2009 11:56 On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:15:04 -0700 (PDT), -hh <recscuba_google(a)huntzinger.com> wrote in <4097b861-be9e-44b5-9dcc-bef37472935c(a)t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>: > nospam <nos...(a)nospam.invalid> wrote: >> > >Futhermore, the S90 isn't representative of general P&Ss, since it >> > >doesn't have a typically small 1/2.5" sensor. It instead follows the >> > >dSLR approach of using a larger sensor and is an eample of the >> > >emerging era of the "small camera / large sensor". >> >> > A bit larger than usual, but nothing like the dSLR approach. > >Where "a bit larger" is roughly 100%-300% more area versus a 1/2.5" or >1/2.7". Hard to retain credibility when trying to trivialize such >relative magnitudes of difference. Canon S90 1/1.7" 43.3 mm� Panasonic FZ28 1/2.33" sensor 28.5 mm� Canon S90 sensor is thus 50% larger than the FZ28. Apology accepted. >> > What makes it special is the fast f/2.0 lens, high-sensitivity sensor, >> > and advanced in-camera image processing. >> >> dslrs can do *better* than f/2, have an even higher sensitivity sensor >> and more advanced image processing. > >Including write times to memory cards. IME, the newer P&Ss have >gotten slower than older P&Ss. Your experience must be with slower memory cards -- my Panasonic FZ28 with SanDisk Extreme III isn't limited by write time. >> > >The trade-off is manifest in its $400 retail price...that's 4x the >> > >cost of a typical ("average") P&S. >> >> > Irrelevant -- dSLR is far more expensive. >> >> wrong. you can get a new dslr for $400, sometimes even less. > >Since John expressed a hypothetical willingness to pay 4x the price of >a typical P&S, the proportionally appropriate factor of 4x taken >against the price of an S90, would give us a $1600 budget to work >with. Plenty of options & choices. And even if we do a simple >linearization to a +$300 premium, that would afford a $700 budget; >there's still several choices. I've said nothing of the sort. What I have said is that even a budget dSLR kit that still falls far short of the Panasonic FZ28 is on the order of $1,128 (as I detailed in my earlier post to this thread), far more expensive than the FZ28, and to get close to comparable quality, it's more like $3,000 (Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM Autofocus lens, as I've detailed in several prior posts to this forum). Apology accepted. p.s. I'm ignoring your usual slurs and misstatements. -- Best regards, John Buying a dSLR doesn't make you a photographer, it makes you a dSLR owner. "The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it." -Ansel Adams
From: John Navas on 27 Oct 2009 12:01 On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:32:03 -0700 (PDT), -hh <recscuba_google(a)huntzinger.com> wrote in <46c02d36-8d3e-4cf9-9743-4f1d6b982117(a)v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>: >nospam <nos...(a)nospam.invalid> wrote: >> -hh <recscuba_goo...(a)huntzinger.com> wrote: >> > Including write times to memory cards. �IME, the newer P&Ss have >> > gotten slower than older P&Ss. >> >> for the most part, memory buffers make that a non-issue. it's very rare >> that anyone is going to be limited by the speed of a card except in >> very crappy cameras or the rare occasion of shooting a *lot* of photos >> at once. > >I was specifically referring to the Canon A590 IS ... putting in a >fast card (I currently have a Class 6 SDHC in it) doesn't improve its >surprisingly slow write time. While it is 2x more pixels, it is >perceptually slower than a 2003-vintage A80, despite being 5 years >newer technology...a disappointment. You must feel very threatened to stoop to bashing a single budget example in an attempt to denigrate more capable alternatives. >The S90's price point is right at the cusp of where one who care to >can choose to trade-off camera size for an 800% gain in sensor size. Not even close, as detailed in my earlier posts to this thread. >[SNIP much ad hominem and mindless bashing] Your childish ad hominem attacks only serve to make you look bad. -- Best regards, John Buying a dSLR doesn't make you a photographer, it makes you a dSLR owner. "The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it." -Ansel Adams
From: John Navas on 27 Oct 2009 12:06 On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:22:31 -0400, tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in <66tce5dg6kcofpc5758kelvg93nv4ucddb(a)4ax.com>: >On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:03:53 -0500, Outing Trolls is FUN! ><otif(a)myaddress.net> wrote: > >>Just as a DSLR is a "master of none". It's not even a "jack of all trades" >>It can't be used silently so as to take photos of wild animals without >>changing their behavior, your presence alerted to them by the sound of your >>camera, or the subject fleeing without you getting a second chance to take >>a shot. >> >>It can't be taken into most public performances these days due to the >>intrusive and obnoxious qualities of them. > >That, in itself, is one of the best reasons to own a dslr and not a >p&s. I don't like paying for a ticket and have some idiot in front of >me standing up to fire off a flash picture of dots in the distance. That's a pretty funny (and lame) excuse for dSLR. ;) Panasonic FZ20 takes silent available light images with its superb 36-432 mm f/2.8 zoom. -- Best regards, John Buying a dSLR doesn't make you a photographer, it makes you a dSLR owner. "The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it." -Ansel Adams
From: nospam on 27 Oct 2009 12:09
In article <fr4ee5p9196a1mduq553nj92auolvl8pnk(a)4ax.com>, John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > > I've said nothing of the sort. What I have said is that even a budget > dSLR kit that still falls far short of the Panasonic FZ28 is on the > order of $1,128 (as I detailed in my earlier post to this thread), far > more expensive than the FZ28, and to get close to comparable quality, > it's more like $3,000 (Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM Autofocus > lens, as I've detailed in several prior posts to this forum). it wasn't true then and it isn't true now. your fz28 lens is nothing at all like a $3000 canon l lens. |