Jihad needs scientists
in [Design]
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From: krw on 6 Nov 2006 09:17 In article <454F423C.3B207DEE(a)hotmail.com>, rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > > > jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > > > unsettled <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote: > > > > >The days of inheriting a bicycle shop that grew into > > >an airframe manufacturing enterprise are gone. > > > > No, it's not. > > Do please supply an appropriate example. Hewlett Packard, Apple, Mc$hit, Dell... Who knows where the next one will pop up. -- Keith
From: George O. Bizzigotti on 6 Nov 2006 09:23 On Sun, 05 Nov 06 13:11:06 GMT, jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: [I've read Eric Lucas's response, and I generally agree with what he's posted. Note that I believe he has more relevant experience in general plant design that do I, so I'll comment mostly on areas relevant to chemical warfare agents, where I have some experience.] >I want to learn how a government head starts this stuff up. >Wouldn't he send his brightest to learn how make a plant >and production lines and stuff. And at the same time, >wouldn't he start to figure how to make these recipies from >scratch? His plans were to bite all hands that supplied him; >a tactical approach would be to learn how to make all the >stuff you got from those hands. This was in a discussion about fabricating highly corrosion-resistant equipment. The recipes for those materials are all broadly available, but it's the fabrication skills, e.g., how does one make welds that are not corrodible or prone to cracking, that are much more difficult to obtain. In this example, don't assume that welding technique for ordinary carbon steel will work for these alloys. My understanding is that the Iraqis figured some of this out by themselves, but it took considerable time. Note also that certain of the fabrication skills are not "taught" except in the shops of the few companies that manufacture such equipment, and it may be easier to enroll at MIT than to place someone in one of those shops. [snip] >In the 80s and even now, lots of stuff is automated. Can you >do automation when you're making chemistry thingies? Plants handling supertoxic materials are typically very automated, but there are still maintenance tasks that require very skilled workers to work on the automated units. There are certain design features that are necessary so that these workers, even dressed in moon suits, can safely work in the same room as the units. There are other design features that are necessary so that the operators can safely sit at their consoles in the same building as the operating units. Automation is only one measure among many needed to mitigate the hazards to acceptable levels. >>The suicidal scenario is a concern for small-scale production, e.g., a >>single batch on a scale that can be achieved using manual >>manipulations, but it's much less likely once one starts to speak of a >>plant designed for continued operation. This is why I qualified my >>statement to "at least some terrorists." >I understood. I guess I don't know what a "small" batch is. >Note that I'm still facinated by war story accounts that measure >supplies in tons. For my reference to manual manipulations, think a large chemistry laboratory. I'd need to look at specific procedures to give an exact figure, but my educated guess is that the maximum is in the low 10s of kg. [snip] >So there has to be some kind >of degree program that teaches kids how to make these plants. One point that was sort of buried in my reply and that Dr. Lucas made in a slightly different way: chemical engineering schools teach students necessary but not sufficient skills for design of an entire plant. Junior engineers typically work on design teams with more senior designers. Juniors typically will be responsible for individual components, whereas it is the senior engineers who guide the entire team in preparing an integrated design, i.e., "make the plant." After extensive experience, first with individual components and then with smaller systems, engineers then are qualified to head the teams that design entire plants. If I understand correctly, this process of increasing levels of responsibility for a design is what Dr. Lucas referred to as "years of actual field experience." Regards, George ********************************************************************** Dr. George O. Bizzigotti Telephone: (703) 610-2115 Mitretek Systems, Inc. Fax: (703) 610-1558 3150 Fairview Park Drive South E-Mail: gbizzigo(a)mitretek.org Falls Church, Virginia, 22042-4519 ********************************************************************** -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: Eeyore on 6 Nov 2006 09:25 krw wrote: > rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > > jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > > > > > unsettled <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote: > > > > > > >The days of inheriting a bicycle shop that grew into > > > >an airframe manufacturing enterprise are gone. > > > > > > No, it's not. > > > > Do please supply an appropriate example. > > Hewlett Packard, Apple, Mc$hit, Dell... Who knows where the next > one will pop up. I don't believe any of the above were inherited though. Graham
From: lucasea on 6 Nov 2006 09:31 "Ben Newsam" <ben.newsam(a)ukonline.co.uk> wrote in message news:3tutk2d2m7r3o65mkcnai829vfiecb4ckg(a)4ax.com... > On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 03:52:18 +0000, Eeyore > <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >>I asked my neighbour about buttermilk. He says his mother used to drink >>lots but >>they lived in the country you see where it would have been readily >>available >>from the farm presumably. > > The "buttermilk" they use in the USA isn't actually buttermilk, it's a > kind of runny yoghurt. It's a little more appetizing than that, but essentially correct. I've never had actual "buttermilk" (the stuff left over when you're done churning butter), so I don't understand the etymology of the term...does the whey from churning butter ferment, and become something akin to the cultured buttermilk that we buy in the stores? Eric Lucas
From: lucasea on 6 Nov 2006 09:42
<jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:ein6vl$8qk_002(a)s943.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... > > My state is going to have an all Democrat political system with > no checks nor balances. ....and yet somehow you completely fail to see how unhealthy that has been for the entire country. Eric Lucas |